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CentralCoaster | So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Senior Guru
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Interesting. So apparently if your vehicle has On-Star, they can shut you down. Better get caught up on those unpaid parking tickets!
Looks like they've had this ability but this is the first time they've admitted using it. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Highspe ... 0b29scwRzbGsDcHJpbnQ-?x=0 Quote: High-speed chase ends when OnStar halts stolen SUV |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 22:12
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pianoguy | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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Wow, now there's some nanny electronics!
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 22:13
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BrianCunningham | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Senior Guru
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GM's actually running an Ad on TV featuring that.
But if I do go with a new Chevy truck, I'll opt out of the OnStar option. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 22:32
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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TommyT-Bone | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Chair-man of the bored
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Wanted for something ? |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 22:50
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TommyT-Bone | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Chair-man of the bored
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If OnStar has that capability I'd want the shut down at my discretion not the police's. That's just as bad as the the computer evidence admitted in high speed accidents recorded on impact. It's my car, that should be my computer and my information it's storing. If cops are going to use that to stop thieves they should be paying me an access fee.
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 22:55
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Durango_Boy | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Elite Guru
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So this won't work on previous OnStar equipped cars and trucks...previous to '09 I mean.
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 22:57
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BrianCunningham | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Senior Guru
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No, I can do w/o the pranksters at work |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 23:27
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biggrizzly | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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My wife lives by the OnStar turn by turn directions and other features. I think its great technology as long as BigBrother doesn't use it against law abiding citizens.
In the case here, I think the owner gave permission. I'd do the same thing. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal by any means, but technology like this can be used to effectively shut down the Bad Guy is good by me. I guess I have worked in a law enforcement organization too long, but there are way too many BGs out there and any tool the LE can use without infringing on my personal rights and space to assist them in thier work is ok by me. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 0:17
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CentralCoaster | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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Technology is always pushed under the guise of "getting the bad guy". But soon enough it starts infringing on your rights. If you are speeding, doesn't that make you "the bad guy"? The cops should just disable your car to ticket you rather than risk a high speed chase or injury. If the cops have that ability, and do not use it, and someone rich/important gets killed, maybe there'll be a lawsuit to impel them. "If it only saves one life..." |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 0:32
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400hp427vette | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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Well said, These are the things that worry me. What s the real reason (not being said) behind the reasons being explained that these are good things for us to have. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 2:03
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Matatk | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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Once again Kevin the Unabomber has negative things to say about a good deed done by technology. "OH NO, THE SLIPPERY SLOPE" - give me a break. This guy already stuck a sawed off shotgun in a guy's face, you think he wouldn't have killed someone trying to get away?
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 2:52
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bogus | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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This is making a big assed stink in the courts... they are trying to determine who owns that data. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 4:15
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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SpectatorRacing | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Elite Guru
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No way, Tommy. That information is for one purpose - to protect the maker of the safety system. We get sued all the time by retards that don't understand how an airbag is supposed to work. Or people that weren't wearing their seatbelt and put it on after the crash. That data is there to prove that the system made the proper decision to deploy or not to deploy the bags. There is very little other information in there at this time. So until retards stop suing OEM's and suppliers to make a buck we'll keep recording what happened in a crash. BTW, the only information in there is about 180 milliseconds of deceleration data, the state of various things like seatbelts, whether or not there were any faults in the system, etc. Some systems record vehicle speed at time of impact, but it's not required by law. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 14:53
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TommyT-Bone | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Chair-man of the bored
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Thanks for clearing that up for me. If the prosecution wants evidence they can always get a warrant. It's like the hard drive on your computer. You have tons of stored information there. Many a felon has been given free accomodations from evidence retreived from their trusty laptop. home computer or cellphone. I have never had that experience because I don't think like a felon but there are plenty that do.
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 15:14
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SpectatorRacing | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Elite Guru
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Here's a blurb about EDR (event data recording). Not a lot of information, but the only thing worthwhile I found with a quick Google search...I have the whole 234 page spec if anyone's interested
Deciphering the NHTSA Event Data Recorder Ruling By Shawn Gyorke Vehicle Event Data Recorders (EDRs), commonly referred to as Black Boxes, are part of a vehicles airbag control module or powertrain control module. EDRs can be configured to record a variety of data when a vehicle is involved in a crash event. The data sets range from pre-impact speed and brake use, to airbag and restraint system performance. While the data that is recorded is tremendously helpful in determining how a traffic crash occurred, it was not until recently that a standard existed for what data was recorded and how it was recorded. From 1998 to 2001, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) sponsored a working group specifically tasked with the study of EDRs. After years of evaluation, NHTSA released a formal Notice of Proposed Rulemaking in 2004. This notice declared NHTSAs intent to standardize EDRs. It was not until August 2006 that NHTSA released its final ruling (49 CFR Part 563). The ruling was lengthy (207 pages), consisting of not only definitions and mandatory EDR standards, but also acted as a formal reply to the dozens of petitions received by NHTSA after the 2004 notice. Since there was already an overwhelming trend for voluntary EDR installation, the ruling did not require manufacturers to install EDRs in vehicles produced for North America. Based on its analysis, NHTSA estimated that by 2010, over 85% of vehicles would already have EDRs installed in them, but warned that if the trend did not continue, the agency would revisit their decision and possibly make installation a requirement. The mandate did, however, provide a minimum standard for the type of data that EDRs would be required to record: at least 15 types of crash data. Some of the required crash data include pre-crash speed, engine throttle, brake use, measured changes in forward velocity (Delta- V), driver safety belt use, airbag warning lamp status and airbag deployment times. In addition to the required data, NHTSA also set standards for 30 other types of data if EDRs were voluntarily configured to record them. For example, if a manufacturer configured an EDR to record engine RPMs or ABS activity, then the EDR would have to record 5 seconds of those pre-crash data in half-second increments. Besides the requirement that all data be able to survive a 30 MPH barrier crash and be measured with defined precision, NHTSA also required that all manufacturers make their EDR data publicly available. As of March 2009, only General Motors, Ford and Daimler Chrysler had released their EDR data to be publicly read. Mitsubishi, Isuzu and Sterling Trucks had also released EDR data on select vehicles. In the August 2006 ruling, NHTSA set a time table for all vehicle manufacturers to be in compliance with the new EDR standards. The compliance date was originally set for all vehicles manufactured after September 1, 2010. NHTSA has since updated its ruling (49 CFR Part 563 Update) to give vehicle manufacturers until September 1, 2012 to be in compliance with the original ruling. EDR data is already changing the landscape of traffic accident investigation. With this updated ruling, it stands to become an indispensible resource for accident reconstructionists, law enforcement officials and insurance investigators. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 18:03
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CentralCoaster | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Senior Guru
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That's why I keep all my good porn stored and evil plans to overthrow the government on my buddy's computer at work. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 19:47
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CentralCoaster | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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And there again is the slippery slope Matatk. This stuff was originally used to datalog and help diagnose and repair the vehicle. Now it's become an indispensible resource for everyone but you. They've used that data to void factory warranties also. What if the sensors aren't correct in a crash? If it's the same type sensors that cause Prius's to start up and accelerate through people's garage doors on occasion, then I don't want to be in court in a he-said-she-said against a computer. In Michigan and perhaps more states now, some insurance companies are now using data recorders to record driving habits in exchange for insurance discounts. Obviously if they find these voluntary trials are successful, they will want to bring that to a state near you. You'd have to be blind to not see where that leads to next... drivers who don't want their driving habits monitored effectively pay more, or maybe even can't get insured. And what are the insurance companies going to use this data for? Gee, I dunno, maybe adjusting your rates based on the nanny computer recording you speeding or something else. If it saves only one life... |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 19:57
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TommyT-Bone | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Chair-man of the bored
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You have a direct link to OnStar. It's all yours.
Attach file: Protect and Serve.jpg (19.73 KB) |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 21:02
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Matatk | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Webmaster
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I guess we should outlaw people driving period, and in that case people even being allowed to walk down the street. Because in a fatal crash where the sensors might record data, there are almost always witnesses on the street. And the police do ask them what happened. I'd rather have a sensor/computer to compare data with than some subjective half-blind "witness" who may or may not have even actually seen the crash and then wants to tell the police all about it. After all, people never make mistakes. They also never lie to the police, good or bad. We should probably outlaw black boxes in airplanes, too, since those record data. You've read 1984 too many times. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 23:22
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400hp427vette | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Senior Guru
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Lets face it. There are good and bad points about all technology. It will never please both sides of the arguement. Its good in some ways but on the other hand it can be used against you. Its good when it catches a criminal & bad when you are being told you voided your warranty 2 months ago because you were doing 130 on the highway. These I think are the facts nothing more.
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Posted on: 2009/10/21 1:27
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CentralCoaster | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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If the technology was only used for good purposes that would be fine. But they never ever stop there. And then "good" starts becoming quite subjective, and over time the exception becomes the rule. Do you really trust that the people in charge are only going to use it to act in your best interests?
It's a rhetorical question though, we don't really have a choice to begin with. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/21 5:58
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Matatk | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Webmaster
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In this case, you do. Don't buy a new car or one with onstar. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/10/21 12:46
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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SpectatorRacing | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Elite Guru
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In a nutshell, isn't it safe to say that you don't have anything to worry about if you aren't breaking the law? Even if data recorders with live humans monitoring your driving habits became standard, if you're not doing anything wrong then you'll never be bothered. Basically you're asking for the ability to break the law and get away with it.
In my case, all I'd have to do is slow down a little. Perhaps all the other assholes who run red lights and cut me off because they're on their cell phones will finally get punished. But more realistically, you have to remember that this information is only used in specific situations - like in a crash. And I sure as hell want the guy who screwed up to get the ticket and be responsible - hopefully it's never me. Do you think people sit around and look at your car's black box regularly? Obviuosly not. There are always conspiracy theory stories about this stuff which get blown out of proportion on the internet or TV. One guy out of 250 million people lost his warranty due to something on a data storage device and we should all run away from this technology. Come on. So you're going to stop using your PC on the internet because the government is watching that, too? |
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Posted on: 2009/10/21 14:21
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CentralCoaster | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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That's a tired argument. "If you have nothing to hide, then what's the problem?"
Do you mind if I sit in the backseat of your car and follow you around all day and maybe sift through your file drawer while I'm at it? I'm amazed how easily people surrender their privacy these days. Save me a place in line when they start paying people to implant RF chips in their heads. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 6:38
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BillH | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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Well, good discussion on both sides.
If I ever buy a car/truck with OnStar, I will disable it. Why? Because it is my choice to do so. I also removed the skip shift on my C4 because it was my choice to do so. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 14:19
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Durango_Boy | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Elite Guru
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Bill if you disable that system will it be called OffStar? LOL.
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 14:22
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SpectatorRacing | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Elite Guru
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Do you mind if I sit in the backseat of your car and follow you around all day and maybe sift through your file drawer while I'm at it? Again, you're implying that this data is constantly monitered. That's simply not true. It's arrogant to think that anyone cares about the things you do in your day-to-day life. You're not being watched because you're insignificant outside of your friends, family, job, etc. Me too. All of us are. If you get into a situation where the data is relevant, it may come into play. Not at any other time, ever. I personally don't care much one way or another. I have other things to think about. Of course I don't condone giving up freedoms, but I also laugh at the conspiracy theorists that think "Big Brother" is watching, and more importantly, that he actually cares about what they do. Unless you commit a crime, are on TV, are high up in politics, or have more than a few hundred million dollars in the bank, then I can assure you - nobody is watching. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 18:07
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JrRifleCoach | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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As I understand the package, OnStar can control all electronic operations. Including older models as well. OBD3 will have satellite link capabilities and coupled with OnStar should be another reason to not crush your old "clunkers". We now really live in an "Orwelian World" The Poice wear black skimasks and helmets reminisent of WW2 The light poles have cameras taking your picture and recording your every move. The satellites can video record to play back your activities. We have GPS tracking devices in out phones and soon our bodies. Our cars can be remote controlled. Our remote aerial drones can deliver smart munitions anywhere in the world. Our government can listen in on our conversations and read our email. Our homes talk to the utility companies and thus the govt. Like CC said....we don't really have a choice to begin with. . |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 19:18
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TommyT-Bone | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Chair-man of the bored
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Back when the Constitution was written none of the stuff existed. Use of new tech is wide open. If anyone wants to escape you can always move to a rural farm and forego any modern day amenities. Then you'll only be subjected to occasional satellite surveilance. And of course, the snakes and bears, and spiders and rats etc. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 19:58
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CentralCoaster | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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I don't walk around with a tinfoil hat. Surely they don't waste their time monitoring all of that. But I don't want to give them the ability to either. Here's a case from 2003 where Onstar appealed a court decision allowing the FBI to tap into the Onstar system in order to eavesdrop on passengers: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-132934.html |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 20:16
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CentralCoaster | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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The supermarkets also track your purchases every time you swipe that club card. They sell that information to advertisers so they can target you. You're in a database and they know what you buy. Yes, you have a choice to not use the card, but it means paying more. You also have to pay money to remove yourself from junk mailer lists, or from the phone book. WTF? How did this become the status quo? And why am I the exception for wanting privacy? |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 20:26
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TommyT-Bone | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Chair-man of the bored
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Simple fact. The government cannot afford to pursue every infraction of law. They do tend to go after the big fish and just as a group of felons would use every tool at their disposal, whether legal or illegal. The enforcement agencies have to play by a rule book. They bend em, break em and forget em but they are restricted as to how they gather evidence. A bad guy is still a bad guy. It's not a level playing field.
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 20:28
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SpectatorRacing | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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Sure you do. There a lots of places you can live. You can even live in the US and go "off the grid". But I'm guessing that most aren't willing to give up their conveniences to stay out of the "government eye." People in rural China and Mexico don't have GPS in their cel phones. Their homes are not connected to the central government server via the power grid, either. And their cars sure as hell don't have black boxes. Of course, they don't have running water, crap in holes in the ground, and eat beetles. Take your pick. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 20:33
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CentralCoaster | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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I'll remember that next time I'm being searched at the airport. It's necessary so you don't have to eat beetles.
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 21:05
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bobges | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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I like your attitude Kevin let me help out with a different view, in New Jersey there are over a hundred ways they can suspend you drivers license for reasons that are not related to driving, one example not paying child support,I'll stop there and see if some one can piece it together
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Posted on: 2009/10/23 0:14
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Durango_Boy | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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Well, a guy at a club trying to pick up ladies is less likely to score if he has no ride of his own. The less he scores the less babies he can make with random drunk women... ...I work with several guys that pay child support to more than one woman for kids they had from stupid drunken nights. Maybe by taking peoples ability to drive they are effectively lowering the number of single pregnant moms collecting child support from baby daddies. (Almost all of that was sarcasm.) |
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Posted on: 2009/10/23 0:29
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biggrizzly | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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I really love the science fiction Big Brother stuff. You guys need to read "The Traveler" by John Twelve Hawks.
Seriously, it is pretty cool. About a future world and big brother where people try to live off the grid to stay out of the oversight of BB. Great read. BTW - OnStar can not slow down or shut off vehicles prior to the 2009 model year. It was incorporated in some 2009 vehicles and 2010 cars and trucks with OnStar. It is explained at their website and already being advertised on television. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/23 0:33
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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JDSWHITE93 | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Senior Guru
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What we need to do is get tough on crime, fuck bait cars and disabling them and all of that bullshit. How about a bait car that when you try to steal it a .44 blows you a new asshole ? Watch the crime rate drop then.
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Posted on: 2009/10/23 1:43
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SpectatorRacing | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
Elite Guru
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If being searched at the airport is the biggest trial you've faced in your life then you are a lucky, lucky man. Annoying? Absolutely. Worth stressing over? Do I need to answer this? I get on planes 20 times a year, half to go overseas. I've been searched a thousand times. I've had to go through the agricultural line a few times as well. Yeah, it's annoying, especially when I'm late. But it isn't worth getting upset over. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/23 14:43
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CentralCoaster | Re: So the police and OnStar can disable your vehicle electronically... | ||
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I'd like to know how many lives they've saved vs. how much time and money have been spent on that. I'd bet its laughable.
Screw freedom, we need that extra layer of security to prevent one of these small time pot smokers from boarding a plane, or people that forgot to leave their bic lighter/pointy belt buckle/10oz bottle of aftershave at home... they might be trying to kill us all! And I'm the paranoid one? They need to knock the statue of liberty down and replace it with a guy bending over and getting a pat down. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/23 22:10
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