Hey guru's long story short. I have been in school. sent my car to a guy that works alone and instead of a 5000 paint job, he said 3500 i said well considering you work alone and i can do cash thats a good deal. saw another corvette he had done, well 4 months later (my dads checking on the progress but not alot of insight) i check on the car a few days ago, its in pieces and in a pile, the cars uncovered, pieces painted outside with bird shit on them... the whole 9 yards, well i got the car home, i have the interior clean again, now to the engine. My mechanic changes the oil...water..... starts it up..sounds alright, after all that TLC we have torn it down again and pulled the block out of the car..found water in heads(rust) the engine is int the machine shop getting tuned up and what all they do, he suggested since im down this far go ahead and find a kit and all that (best bang for the buck Possible) i agreed if img do it, why not now.

Opinions on what to purchase, where to purchase, deals..quality.
I said hey img let the Guru's build me a 383kit. Hope your upto the challenge.
Thanks guys for any comments, questions, and advice.
PS i did get my money back and the car looks good as new on interior..
Does anyone know a website i can tweak with the setting to show horse power off an engine...
Enjoy your Thanksgiving.

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.

That's too bad.....did you at least get to kick his ass? Are you sure you want to dump a boatload of money in that L98? You will never get it back out of the car.....I'm not trying to bum you out at all because if you truly love the car and plan on keeping it go for it.

The great thing is i have a buddy that works for caterpillar so it only took 4hrs and the engine was out, with that said yes misfortune was the case. (after i loaded up the car he went inside, i went on the porch and he let a dog out on my ass bc he knew i was gonna kick his ass. Called him, he said 300 i said go screw yourself, ill call the cops, he comes out hands me my money i called him some names and here we are.

i agree the car as of now will not bring that back. total buying the car, restoring the inside and all new engine compartment around the block with a paintjob im at about 13-15000. if i can turn it into a 383 and pull up beside about anyone knowing i (Could) blow them away in an 85 corvette im willing to put 1500-3000 in it.

Well... a 383... a good upgrade... but...

You will need heads. The factory iron heads are not going to flow worth a damn.

At the very least, get later aluminum GM heads, 113 or 128 castings. They can be ported. However, by the time you pay for that, you might as well get some AFR heads and be done.

You will want a 383 rotating mass. Get the best, don't dick around with cast shit from China. The dollar difference, vs the quality, to me, makes no sense. There are several good brands of American made forged cranks.

Good rods and then valve train; roller rockers, hardened push rods...

Also, your 85 short block uses flat tappets, I would consider getting a later short block that uses hydraulic lifters and a 1 piece rear main seal. These are cheap, and if you shop right, you can get a truck small block that has 4 bolt mains, vs the stock L98 that has 2 bolt mains.

You will be more than $3k in parts, to be honest, but you will have an engine that should survive. Why spend less when it is suspect and won't perform as you desire?

I would also consider checking out these guys: www.eficonnection.com

They do conversions for the old small block so it will run LSx engine controllers.

I’d be nice to have all US made and forged componets but your budget rules that out.

I think we can do something decent in your budget.

I’m figuring your going to want to stay TPI so the stuff I've selected fit that powerband and HP range.

Eagle cast crank, SIR rods KB Hyper pistons internally balanced Rotating assembly - $884

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/rotati ... -10-9-1-kb-pistons-1.html

Dart 180 SHP alum cyl heads hyd roller springs $980

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/cylind ... ead-assembled-1-head.html

Howards Retro roller cam. $280

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Ho ... it/productinfo/111145-12/

Howards Retro Roller lifters. $340

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Ho ... hev-SB/productinfo/91164/

Cloyes double roller timing chain. $20

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Cl ... eyway/productinfo/C3023X/

That’s $2500 in the hard parts and your going to have $350 in machine work on your block.

Then small parts like - oil pump $25,

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Me ... -265-400/productinfo/M55/

Pushrods $110,

http://www.competitionproducts.com/5_ ... nd-Pushrods/products/688/

1.6 rocker arms $80,

http://www.competitionproducts.com/PV ... SB-3_8/productinfo/6236R/

Victor gasket set $142.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1041219,parttype,10392

You’re a couple hundred over 3K with brand new Dart Alum heads.
Will

I respect Will's input on this subject. If he say's these are good parts, they are.

You can pick/choose... use ebay/craigslist, never know the deals you will find, too.

Quote:

These parts are close to what Pete K used to build my 383. He used a Scat 9000 crank instead of Eagle, and a Erson 218/226 cam ,Speed Pro hyper pistons, but the prices are about the same. I have the Dart Pro 1 180 heads which I like alot,and my compression is "10.25 to 1"..
Im running a ported and port matched TPI intake consisting of a Edelbrock intake manifold, and a set of Accel intake runners, along with a megaported plenum. One thing you might want to consider is to use a 4 bolt block like the one Pete used for my engine instead of your stock block. Besides being stronger, this also allows you to drive your car while building the new 383..
There's nothing wrong with using the above parts to build a 383. I have put 16,000 miles on my 383 since it was built, and Pete K had almost the exact same engine except with a Super Ram and use to take his to the track quite often with no problems. Pete was turning mid 11s with it, which isn't to shabby for a budget 383...If your going to be running a TPI intake you don't have to worry about turning high rpms and destroying the motor but you will have a ton of torque which is better for the street. If I remember correctly Pete said my motor should have around 380-390 hp at the crank...Good Luck...WW

I haven't read this entire thread, but if you Do end up w/ a 383 conversion, check out this article from Car Craft magazine. The Patriot heads turned out to be a great alternative for the $$. If I didn't already have a set of AFR's for my build, I'd probably get a set of these Patriots.

Well, let me be the Debbie Downer of the thread. When I see a $1,500-3,000 budget, I do not see a stroker. Sorry. I think I have $4,500 in parts and labor in my motor alone. That is not including trans upgrade, intake, exhaust, tune, peripheral accessories, etc. I know guys do "budget builds" but you can't do that with new parts and you have to be willing to do a lot of assembly work, etc yourself (excluding machining).

I see absolutely nothing wrong with a strong 355. That's a rebuilt motor with a .30 overbore. The difference is you can reuse your crank (usually polished) and your stock rods. I'm told if you polish the stock rods they are good for 350 hp. You are then saving all that money from a 383 crank and rods. You will need new pistons.

You will absolutely choke a 383 with a stock tpi system. I think it's a waste, to be honest with you. Even going from my ported Edelbrock big mouth intake base, ported SLP runners, and ported plenum to the Superram was a night and day difference. If I had to do it over again I'd either get a miniram or that new Edelbrock ProFlow intake for ease of installation and ease of finding the part (SR is long discontinued).

Not sure on your exhaust currently, but you would benefit from long tubes and dual exhaust. Get the coated headers, the uncoated ones make the engine bay ridiculously hot. I tried to save a few bucks up front and got uncoated and I regret it.

As far as your computer, the 85 is considered inferior. A lot of guys repin the ECM for the later 86-89 '165 version. Much cheaper than a standalone like an Accel and you can get a decent mail order tune for around $250.

You will need heads. Dart is a good brand, I have no personal experience with them. I have Edelbrock aluminum street heads that have been massaged a bit as far as porting, bowl blending, valve job. I bought them used for a fair price and had some minor work done. Still came out cheaper than AFRs which are also good quality but there's half of your budget.

I'd recommend getting a later block that is already set up for a roller cam and lifters as opposed to doing the retrofit. It's a cost savings and superior.

If you can assemble the motor yourself you can save a few hundred dollars over what I spent on mine. But I didn't want to take the risk of screwing up my $3,000 worth of parts with a rookie mistake.

I'm not trying to discourage you from a 383. But I want you to be informed. Guys promote the 383 as the Holy Grail of all motors. It's not. It's a 350 with a couple more cubes. If I had the money and knowing know what I do, I would have just built a 400 block...perhaps a 406 or whatever was appropriate. People also say "it's pennies more" vs a 355 and that's bs. Don't forget the extras like the flexplate, balancer, etc. All these add up in a build.

Take your time selecting your parts to work well together. Find a good machinist who is trustworthy. Get the entire rebuild step by step layout and cost IN WRITING before you start. Learn from my mistake. There are builders out there who love to tack on extra costs at the end that you never discussed in the beginning. It's common from what I learned after the fact.

I'd also look on racingjunk, etc for engines that are already built. You can save a good amount of money that way.

Matthew

Thanks for all the input and the links, im putting serious thought into the decision. I havent sat down and really looked hard but ill show you what i found out today for a local kit.

http://whiteperformance.com/assemblies.html

buy some heads around 800

I can get that 10 miles down the road and i really like some of the stuff that Will posted to complement that.

Im not going for racing conditions just the idea of i can keep up with anything on the street

again i appreciate the opinions i have a mechanic that will do it all for free and he recommended the switch since it is a Crate engine probably around 2005 i havent ran the numbers. Just really looking for some good ideas and take my time.

383 can push 500 easy correct with the right assembly that handle 600?

You cannot build a reliable 500 hp car for $3,000. Cheap parts break at that level. You also have to consider the wear the rest of the car is going to experience as well. I think 400 is very easily attainable with the advice given above. Buying a stroker kit is a good idea, just make sure you match it to the head combustion chambers, etc, to get the correct compression.

Quote:

100% Truth right here. TPI won't make anywhere near 500HP anyway.

You have to be reasonable with your expectations. Your buying a cast crank and Hyper/budget forged pistons.... These are 400HP and 5500RPM parts....

Those kits from Skip White are a good deal and except for the pistons are nearly the same stuff I recomended.... His HP recomendations are lofty IMO....

Be sure of what size harmonic balancer you get... an 8" balancer is going to require you to hammer the crap out of the crossmember....

If I were you, I'd buy one of those kits and the Dart SHP heads. I would not buy those $800 chinese cyl heads... the castings can be OK, but the hard ware and machine work are JUNK.

On to other stuff...

I have to disagree with you guys asking him to find a factory hyd roller block - Over re-using his stock block and going retro roller cam....

By the time you buy a block and new lifters, spider, dog bones and cam retainer... don't forget he now has to have a new oil pan and flywheel too - There is no cost savings.

If you can get a good deal on all that stuff used by buying a used short block and the parts are all reuseable... You can save $$$ but there your comparing used parts to new and I honestly have not seen a $150 used Vortec short block for sale in a long, long time....
Will

Okay, I am not an engine mentor, but I love the big-block-like low-end torque of my 409 and find the 6300 redline just fine for my driving. Doubt you truly need a 4-bolt main for that range. I wish i could recommend the SuperRam; great for its torque and broad power band but the biggest PITA to assemble/disassemble.

I commend you for researching ahead of time, versus throwing parts at it, but missing is precisely what you intend the car to do; how/where you will drive it, which dictates the recipe.

Also, consider what the increased power will do to the downstream driveline, specifically, the decreased lifespan. How do I know? HA! I have pics.

Better off with a crate engine

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mll-bp3834ct1/overview/

You'll need a decent intake for it though.

The stock L98 is good for torque but will run out of air up top

I concur with Mathew, Will and Brian


A truth about performance is

Reliable, Cheap, Fast, choose two.


In my experience on a performance modification project, research and come up with your projected budget, then double it and you may end up close. Modififying older vehicles always brings up a couple of unexpected Oh-shits and Oh buy the ways. If you search the internet the double the estimate often happens to folks that use professional shops...They'll take their car, bike, boat to a shop; get an estimate and next thing they know is the price is skyrocketing.

For a mild 355 build with decent parts figure 5-6K and don't be surprised to have to spend another 2k or so on your driveline.

Good luck.

Mike

I agree with matt, the stroker setup puts you in a different cost category with regard to bottom end parts, and intake.

For the price would you rather have a cobbled together chinese stroker? Or a halfway decent performance build on a 350?

I think you learned your lesson on taking shortcuts with the paint job. You either take it in the wallet or you take it in the ass.

Hey guys, got some updates for you, we broke the engine down and found out it had a one roller timing chain that was about to fall off. Oil pump looked horrible and i assume where someone had it broke down before had burnt oil down in the head area, (probably not bad but i didnt like the smell)

I have found out a little more knowledge of the rebuild i am looking at. (400HP is a good build for me considering i dont race or wont see 6000RPMS.

I am gonna buy some stuff mentioned above on that great list but before i buy this stuff i wanted some criticism and some praise if possible by people with more knowledge than i have in the corvette world.
http://www.whiteperformance.com/assemblies.html
Above is the Assembly kit.
http://www.whiteperformance.com/sbc_heads.html
Aluminum Heads above.
http://www.whiteperformance.com/Pistons.html
Pistons above.

I have had my mechanic really form my list and then i confronted these guys at Whites Performance for the pieces of the puzzle. (i know they want a sale but seem to be looking out for my best interest.

They said the pistons and heads off of my engine they would buy to give me more buying power.

Again just take a glance, Comment however you feel necessary... i am just looking for a great build/solid engine at 400hp.
Anything that you would want to remind me i should confirm on my buying list please do.
Thanks guys i love the support/criticism/ i have learned some lessons along the way. Its nice to have a team of gurus to ask.

And In Wills Last post i am agreeing about the heads and i asked him about that, said its not Chinese Made. Im just the messenger.

Quote:
The reason for the popularity of a 383 is that IF you have to do FULL rebuild on a 350 you are only looking at the extra cost of the stroker crank
(offset by what it will cost to clean the used 350 crank up )

Quote:

I understand that and I agree. Most guys don't need a full rebuild like that. I am included in that category. Didn't need a 383, did it anyway.

Quote:

Some of those cyl heads on the page (Dart and AFR) are mfgr's in USA....

However the $595 heads near the top are Pro Comp. Pro Comp is made in CHINA, I don't GAF what he tells you. The valve springs won't even work with a small hyd roller cam. IMO, your asking for trouble buying those heads.

The Dart SHP heads @$980 I linked you to are the cheapest way to get a quality product already set up for a hyd roller cam.

I assume your buying one of the $769 383 kits... The parts are what they are.... I'll break each peice down with my opinion.

I am not a fan of the Pro Products harmonic balancer but your not going to get much better at that price point... Althou about ANYTHING else would be better.

The Pro Comp rods do not have a good reputation. I honestly would be scared to death of these rods and would not use them.

If you get a choice, the Scat 9000 series cast crank is the better than the Eagle cast. There are 2 different Scat 9000 cast cranks (a service replacement and a high performance) and I'd be intersted to see which one you actually get...

The Probe pistons are as good as you can buy at the price point. Fine for what your doing.

Hastings rings are good parts. Keep in mind these particular rings are 5/64 compression rings designed for factory replacement and mild high performance engines. Also fine for what your doing.

King Brgs are also good parts. Again the particular brgs your getting are factory replacement and mild performance stuff. Again fine for what your doing.

Basically your saving $200 on the rotating assy and $300 on the heads by buying a kit composed of some decent parts mixed in with some very questionable parts... It may be worth the risk for you. I know SW is going to tell you they build millions of engines with this stuff and don't have any problems but keep in mind that I'm not selling you anything... I am just trying to direct you to buy known brand parts with a (slightly) better than halfway decent reputation.

Whatever you end up buying, I really hope it works out for you.
Will

Im definitely with you WILL. Any possible way you know of other kits that i could buy already put together you would recommend?

I wanna do it right for sure (Rebuild) with my knowledge of pieces is a little weak, i dont wanna have to order from 5+ places and be missing a piece or two and have to come back looking.

I really appreciate the help ill have to send you a 50$ giftcard for helping me out.

If possible post your updated links for the recommended buys and ill check em out, i know some of the links were not open.

My AFR are made in the USA

I was going to have a set of stockers ported.

Turned out to be cheaper to buy the AFR's

Not being and LT1/4 you have a lot more options.

What INTAKE are you running?
The stock L98 intake is good up to a point then it will CHOKE
No sense on spending a lot of $$$ on the shortblock if you're just going to choke it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-25-Stamped- ... ash=item4850912e95&_uhb=1

Running into my exhaust from Napa give me a minute and ill find it for you.

Cant seem to find it but i will post em. Thats the size all the way back i believe.

Since the Howards retro roller cam is the best deal going and IMO it's one of the most important parts for HP/driveability/relibility - I'll show you what Competition Products has... You can buy almost everything from them but the prices (while good) are not rock bottom on every little thing....

$853 - Eagle street/strip balanced 383 kit.

http://www.competitionproducts.com/bE ... roductinfo/EAGB13455E030/

$1025 - Dart SHP heads.

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Da ... er/productinfo/DRT127222/

$280 - Howards Retro Roller camshaft.
http://www.competitionproducts.com/Ho ... it/productinfo/111145-12/

$340 - Howards Retro Roller lifters. $340

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Ho ... hev-SB/productinfo/91164/

$20 - Cloyes double roller timing chain.

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Cl ... eyway/productinfo/C3023X/

$25 - oil pump

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Me ... -265-400/productinfo/M55/

$110 - Pushrods (note you can't know which length to buy until rocker geometry is plotted)

http://www.competitionproducts.com/5_ ... nd-Pushrods/products/688/

$80 - 1.6 rocker arms

http://www.competitionproducts.com/PV ... SB-3_8/productinfo/6236R/

$6 - Cam thrust button

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Co ... -SB-600/productinfo/8144/

Your just not going to be able to buy everything from one place... Mainly the gasket kit is the exception.

$137 - Victor Reinz PN FS1178VL

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/rafra ... de=1041219&parttype=10392

With these parts above you wil re-use your 85's orginal engine block, oil pan, windage tray, oil pump pick up, oil pump drive shaft, timing cover, valve covers, TPI intake, harmonic balancer and flexplate... of course the external accy's (AC, water pump, ect).

$2876 total in engine parts.

Machine work varies by area but bare bones would be about $375.

$75 - Clearance block for 3.75 stroke
$100 - Clean/install cam brgs/freeze plugs
$200 - Bore/Hone

Will

AWESOME MAN YOUR AWESOME, ALL of these items just select one in quanity? meaning the heads it should include 2?

Second question not to be redundant but the kit i am looking at on whites would be a (1-10) vs your set up (1-10) quanity and quality speaking.

Push rods were the only thing i couldnt get a product number on
http://www.competitionproducts.com/5_ ... nd-Pushrods/products/688/

That might depend on what im doing as well.

Quote:

The heads are sold individually so you need (2) at $512 each.

The rest of it is a quanity of (1).

The connecting rods really hurt the entire SW kit down to a 1... If someone brought that kit in my shop, I would refuse to build it with those rods.

Everything used in the Eagle kit is known quality stuff. Not all the best but consistantly in the top half of this field.

As far as a quality scale of 1-10...

I'm comparing the main parts of these 2 similar price range componets against other similar priced parts. Pistons in this price range for example would be Probe 10, ICON 9, KB Hyper 8, Speed Pro Hyper 7... All very good quality for what your doing.

Some stuff is going to be a tie quality wise because it's mostly builder preference what they use... Example of this is the rings and brgs.

Pistons:
10 -Probe (SW)
7 - Speed Pro Hyper (Eagle)

Rods:
1 - Pro Comp (SW) I would give these rods a ZERO if I could.
9 - Eagle SIR (Eagle)

Crank:
10 - Scat 9000 Cast (SW)
9 - Eagle Cast (Eagle)

Rings:
10 - Hastings (SW)
10 - Speed Pro (Eagle)

Brgs:
10 - King (SW)
10 - Clevite 77 (Eagle)

Will

Quote:

Pushrods are the last thing you buy.

You have to have the engine assembled or mock assembled to plot the rocker arm geometry... You do this with an adjustable pushrod... once you figure out what length push rod you need to get the rocker geometry correct you buy a set of push rods that length.

This is a good article on what rocker geometry is and why it's important.

http://www.circletrack.com/techarticl ... _arm_valvetrain_geometry/

This is a great step by step of how to plot rocker geometry and meaure for correct pushrod length.

http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/ctrp_0609_pushrod_length/

Will

I got with the guy at whites, told him my concerns he said buy what you want off of Summit or wherever and bring it to me ill make sure its compatible so i did.
Everything is going good when i bring the engine home i will have pics to show.
Thanks for all the help and part numbers and comments.
#TakingMyTime.