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| Jeffvette | Well | ||
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After much consideration on having two posts removed with no PM or email from a moderator, I will say this is turning into the CF.
I think I am done. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/24 17:53
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| DaleD | RE:Well | ||
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Seriously? Just replies in threads, or whole threads?
Any clue why they were pulled? |
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Posted on: 2008/2/24 18:06
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| tobijohn | RE:Well | ||
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That's a little unsettling. Have you contacted a mod for an explanation?
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Posted on: 2008/2/24 19:18
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John 1996 LT4 coupe black/black 160 Tstat, K&N, Hypertech PPIII (for the fans), CAGS, Nitto 555 EPs, 275/315s, Chrome A-molds, a little tint and some black-outs AIRFOIL FREE! |
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| brut | RE:Well | ||
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Jeff, I worked 3rd shift last night when I saw your latest thread about a CF moderator. After much thought I decided it best to remove the thread. I work on an ambulance and I had an emergency run after I moved it so I was unable to reply until now when I woke up.
I understand yours and everyone else's frustration with the way CF has chosen to run their site. I can assure you we have no intention of going down that road. I do believe there are a lot of freedoms here that you will not see there or in many other forums. But, we just cannot have an open bashing of their moderators or owners anymore. Its one thing to say "This will get me banned" but its totally different to say "XXXXXX is a total dickhead". Although it is something most everyone here has in common, I have received PMs from the newer folk wandering in concerned about the hostility and they have asked me to delete them from our database because of it. Right now, this has been really the only thing we have taken issue with. I am sorry if you feel that it is turning into CF here. That is not our intention at all, but there has to be some kind of control in place. You are a respected voice in the Corvette community and I would hate to lose your input over this, but this is where I stand and I do believe the other admins and mods do to. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/24 19:23
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| bogus | RE:Well | ||
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Everytime there is a major exodus from CF, there is a spate of bashings.
When DM got started, there was a lot of CF bashing over there, and the end result? A lot of new members at DM left. People ultimately don't want to see sites get bashed. No matter how inane their management may be, it becomes like a disease and harms the greater good. It also starts to poison the members... it becomes a slipary slope... no question about it. This place will never be like any other place. I feel users have more room to comment on just about any topic here than anywhere else. I have noticed that CF is trying to become very insular, and as such, is afraid to hear opposing views. They are squashing all forms of descension that it's not even funny. that won't happen here. But what is getting old is the bashing... it does no one any good, ultimately. However, as established users continue to get banned from other sites, they land here, and need to vent some of the anger that comes from being forcably divorced. So everyone needs a moment to bitch. With that said, there has been a lot of postings of late where people have crossposted threads showing how stupid/draconian/whatever CF is being. I have to ask this question: Don't we already know that? It's the #1 reason we are here, isn't it? CF has it's issues... maybe it is reaching critical mass... I don't know, but I do know it's time we stop crossposting stupidity. If it's a valid tech thread, sure, but as an example of how stupid they are or whatever, it's not needed. I guess I have to ask this question: If all we ever do is point out their mistakes and shortcomings, will we ever grow past it? Will we ever rise above that pettiness? So all I am asking, please, stop bashing other sites. If you have a legit complaint, sure, but to post a thread to just bitch about their lack of professionalism, no. It's time to raise our professionalism and ignore the other sites... CF, DC, CAC... let them do their own thing. We have to do ours. And that must be our main focus. Thanks! |
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Posted on: 2008/2/24 20:12
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| Livin_the_dream | RE:Well | ||
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 well said Andy |
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Posted on: 2008/2/24 21:26
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| smooth | RE:Well | ||
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Jeff,
If you left here, you would have left 2 sites because of one site's short comings Everyone here has had sufficient time to vent . Bogus makes a good argument. Lets get back to what we enjoy: Vette Talk! |
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Posted on: 2008/2/24 21:51
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Alan 2001 Navy Blue Metallic Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. Dr.Seuss |
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| Shadow | Re: Well | ||
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Quote:
After much consideration on having two posts removed with no PM or email from a moderator, I will say this is turning into the CF. Although I agree with Andy, and am guilty of the same thing toward a couple of mods and one admin in particular "over there", I think it should be expected that the person making the deletion, edit (edits should NEVER be done IMO), ban or lock, have the common courtesy to notify the author. This was and is one of my biggest complaints on Brand X.  If you have the time and the juevos to edit, lock, delete of ban, you have the time to provide a brief explanation to the author or at least tell them that it was done, and who did it. Jeff seeing his post(s) MIA with no explanation will as we saw here, inevitably result in the feelings and "dejavu" that he experienced. As Andy said though, lets move forward in a more professional vein than brand X |
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 2:15
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Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of men? The SHADOW knows... The CF Artist fka: STREETKNIGHT..R.I.P. www.CorvetteFlorida.com www.CorvetteInternational.com |
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| brut | RE:Well | ||
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Shadow, I agree with you and I apologize that I did not get it done. But as said, I had to leave for an emergency and by the time I got back, it was time for me to go home and it just slipped my mind until I got back on later in the day.
I have already stated to the other mods that we should be diligent in notifying the members if their threads are moved/removed. Like you said, lets just move on and be done with it |
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 2:43
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| Shadow | RE:Well | ||
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Shadow, I agree with you and I apologize that I did not get it done. But as said, I had to leave for an emergency and by the time I got back, it was time for me to go home and it just slipped my mind until I got back on later in the day. Works for me bro |
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 3:13
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Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of men? The SHADOW knows... The CF Artist fka: STREETKNIGHT..R.I.P. www.CorvetteFlorida.com www.CorvetteInternational.com |
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| Jeffvette | RE:Well | ||
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Shadow, I agree with you and I apologize that I did not get it done. But as said, I had to leave for an emergency and by the time I got back, it was time for me to go home and it just slipped my mind until I got back on later in the day. So did YOU delete it both times or just once? If you only did it once, who deleted the other one? And if you deleted both there was a good two hours in between each posting. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 3:17
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| Klaus | RE:Well | ||
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Simple fix... The rule should be that the explanation PM must be sent before the deletion/edit is made.
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 3:35
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| JrRifleCoach | RE:Well | ||
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JeffVette,
A good friend of mine with a red ZR from Sonora, has nothing bet great things to say about you and your abilities. I must confess that I too have read your posts at CF and here with great admiration. best regards, Steve |
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 3:47
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| brut | RE:Well | ||
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Jeff, I moved one and another mod moved the one before.
Again, AFTER this situation occurred is when I notified everyone else that they need to contact the original poster and explain their concerns. If that doesn't happen in the future or you have a problem with someone here, you can contact me, Andy, or Bastet and we will find out why. I really don't think anyone here wants to be an ass about stuff that goes on here. We understand what everyone's pet peeves are from CF and other forums. We have all been there and we are trying to not become like them. But there has to be some control for the forum's benefit and the bashing of other forums or personal attacks against their mods needs to stop. Once again, sorry for moving your thread w/o telling you,but I still stand by my reason for doing so. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 4:21
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| brut | RE:Well | ||
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Simple fix... The rule should be that the explanation PM must be sent before the deletion/edit is made. This sounds like a fine plan, but if someone posts porn or any subject matter that is going to be obviously offensive to our other members, we will move it first, then notify. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 4:23
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| Klaus | RE:Well | ||
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I understand and fully agree.
The notify first rule should apply to all but the very clear cut bad posts such as porn, spam attacks, etc. Understand I only say a PM should be sent before taking action. The action could be taken immediately after the PM was sent. How long would this rule delay taking an action? How long does it take to send a quick PM? Two minutes or so? I think this insures that the OP is told by the moderator of the action, and gets an answer on why the action was taken. This also gives the moderator a minute or two to think about what he is about to do before he hits the delete key. I may be wrong, but don’t moderators have a bad day too? Just a suggestion... |
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 4:57
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2008 Machine Silver Coupe LS3 / Z51 / A6 / NPP |
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| CasetheCorvetteman | RE:Well | ||
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So did YOU delete it both times or just once? If you only did it once, who deleted the other one? And if you deleted both there was a good two hours in between each posting. I deleted one, cause it was what i deemed to be inapropriate. And it was. I wont apollogise for it, cause i was not in the wrong. Apparently i was the one that deleted the 2nd one, and yet i still saw a third version of it repeated again. Id have to think alarm bells wouldve been ringing when you saw the 2nd one deleted, so i really think you had a very fair go. I didnt have time to scratch my arse let alone sent someone a PM to state the obvious. If you have to repost a thread twice, wouldnt you think maybe a 3rd time might be pushing your luck abit? The one i deleted was brought to my attention by another forum member through email. They told me its affecting their presence here, a couple others have also said the same to me in the past week or so, so youll never know just how many others come along and read those beat up threads and decide they dont really want to get involved in a forum that has every second thread related to the Corvette Forum and how it's run. Im sure you may feel violated by the fact we removed your material (which we obviously both deemed to be inapropriate) and by the posts made on the other forum (not that id know what was said, all i saw was the post you linked to and there was nothing wrong with what i read there.) There are two ways you can take all this, you can run and cry in the corner, or you can be a man and get on with life, and accept the fact that they are arseholes that NO ONE is forcing you to deal with. Simply cause 2 of us here deemed something inapropriate for the forum and removed it does not make us a pack of arseholes, and it does not make us like them, i was simply acting in what i believe to be the best interest of the forum and the members that make it (and i will continue to do so). Im quite sure Brut was doing the same. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 6:48
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| Jeffvette | RE:Well | ||
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Quote: I give you props for steppign up to the plate. Quote: Apparently i was the one that deleted the 2nd one, and yet i still saw a third version of it repeated again. Id have to think alarm bells wouldve been ringing when you saw the 2nd one deleted, so i really think you had a very fair go. I didnt have time to scratch my arse let alone sent someone a PM to state the obvious. If you have to repost a thread twice, wouldnt you think maybe a 3rd time might be pushing your luck abit? In reality it was only posted twice. So wherever this mysterious third version came from, I have no idea. If you don't have much time to scratch your ass, I don't think you have enough time to be a moderator. Quote: The one i deleted was brought to my attention by another forum member through email. They told me its affecting their presence here, a couple others have also said the same to me in the past week or so, so youll never know just how many others come along and read those beat up threads and decide they dont really want to get involved in a forum that has every second thread related to the Corvette Forum and how it's run. Sorry, I guess I kind of lost track with all the other posts about CF. I figured it would kind of blend in with the "I left the other forum" Central Coaster is still a legend" etc. Quote: Im sure you may feel violated by the fact we removed your material (which we obviously both deemed to be inapropriate). I don't hae a problem with it being removed. Just some moderator who thinks removing something and then not letting the content publisher know why it was removed, it's a little like... the place we are not allowed to speak of. Quote: There are two ways you can take all this, you can run and cry in the corner, or you can be a man and get on with life, and accept the fact that they are arseholes that NO ONE is forcing you to deal with. Simply cause 2 of us here deemed something inapropriate for the forum and removed it does not make us a pack of arseholes, and it does not make us like them, i was simply acting in what i believe to be the best interest of the forum and the members that make it (and i will continue to do so). Im quite sure Brut was doing the same. Good luck Andy, hope the site goes well. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 17:28
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| Matatk | RE:Well | ||
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Sounds like a whole lot of miscommunication. I hope everyone can see that and still be friendly. I deal with this stuff everyday at my job and sometimes an independent person has to step in and point it out. Usually both sides have valid points and it's hard to see that sometimes.
"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?...It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not, it’s not going to change anything. We’ll, we’ll get our justice....Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out." Rodney King, 1992  Matthew |
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 23:21
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Well | ||
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On a previous occasion, some other refugees on here started dishing out personal attacks and after I moderated the thread I was accused of turning the place into CF.
Anyone expecting to get away with saying whatever they want is probably going to be disappointed on most any forum they go on. If anyone calls someone a dickhead in an open forum (esp behind their back) then they shouldn't be surprised when it disappears. But yeah, I agree the poster should be notified anytime something is moderated, otherwise the moderation comes across as sneaky and indefensible. I don't know what was posted but based on what I see here I probably would have deleted it too, and because it takes away from the forum. It sure as hell wouldn't be because I feel the need to defend them. As for the talking about other sites, I don't see the big deal. It sucks if half of the forum is preoccupied with talking about another forum, but at the same time, it isn't fair to quash every mention of it just because a mod here is "over it". Every single ex CF user that comes on here is probably going to want to say something about the site. Some of them will go right back to it too, hell, I did initially. So Jeff, if you leave I hope you have a better reason than that...  It's kinda nice that you can call out a mod here and actually get an explanation though isn't it? |
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 23:47
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| cuisinartvette | RE:Well | ||
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Hold on a minute..
.Ive posted on other forums and after hitting the reply button for some reason it didnt "take", or post.. .So I have reposted stuff before. Now if it disappears I know it got deleted by a mod. Give Jeff a break, hes a good dude and has an extreme amount of C4 know-how. I got to have his back, he has helped me for years to no end and has never asked a thing. In fact I never have met him yet. 99% of what know about this Z is through him if that counts for anything as a show of his character.. Anyway fwiw...... |
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Posted on: 2008/2/25 23:52
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| Shadow | RE:Well | ||
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Quote:
If anyone calls someone a dickhead in an open forum (esp behind their back) then they shouldn't be surprised when it disappears. But yeah, I agree the poster should be notified anytime something is moderated, otherwise the moderation comes across as sneaky and indefensible If it's in an "open forum" then it's not behind thier back;) Wills, Robert, Irish Mac or any of the other keyboard badasses, have the right and ability to log in or just view the boards here. I'm not hiding from any of them! I only changed my SN to let the "knight" die in peace I agree with you about the notification Thats what I do on the sites I moderate. It might not change things, and I won't argure with them, but at least I'm man enough to tell them what I did and that I did it It's a lot more than I can say for those others. Hopefully, you guys will not be this way and the site will flourish |
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Posted on: 2008/2/26 0:02
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Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of men? The SHADOW knows... The CF Artist fka: STREETKNIGHT..R.I.P. www.CorvetteFlorida.com www.CorvetteInternational.com |
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| MK 82 | RE:Well | ||
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Quote: Shadow, Have you ever moved a thread out of the reach of the public on your Corvette Florida? |
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Posted on: 2008/2/26 0:11
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96 CE Roadster LT4 |
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| Shadow | RE:Well | ||
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CasetheCorvetteman" Everyones entitled to thier opinion.. .Quote: Apparently i was the one that deleted the 2nd one, and yet i still saw a third version of it repeated again. Id have to think alarm bells wouldve been ringing when you saw the 2nd one deleted, so i really think you had a very fair go. Case, maybe those alarms sound both ways mate? If there's that many posts/threads on a given subject, then it's obviously an issue near and dear to many peoples heart. Are we going to start deleting, editing (God forbid) and censoring just becasue it offends a mod or 1-2 people? Thats "over there" all over again  Quote: I didnt have time to scratch my arse let alone sent someone a PM to state the obvious. If you have to repost a thread twice, wouldnt you think maybe a 3rd time might be pushing your luck abit? If you're that busy, maybe you're too busy? Take some time...chill out...get away from the computer for a while...life's too short bro IMO, there was nothing glaringly obvious about what happened. The psot wasn't doing any harm and quite possibly the tread starter reposted thinking there was a system glitch? It's not like this site hasn't had it's issues in the past. Thats why I never returned after my 1st log in...site problems. BTW...admins...great job of fixing those issues Quote: The one i deleted was brought to my attention by another forum member through email. They told me its affecting their presence here, a couple others have also said the same to me in the past week or so, so youll never know just how many others come along and read those beat up threads and decide they dont really want to get involved in a forum that has every second thread related to the Corvette Forum and how it's run. Here's a suggestion! Instead of deleting the danged thread, how about MERGING THEM into one and let ALL the CF pissing and whining go there? it solves several problems at once. Gives the people who need/want to vent a place to do so, and give those too tender to be bothered with such foolishness, the ability to NOT LOOK AT IT :evil4: I agree that I don't want to read every other post about CF, but I don't mind having one condensed thread on them;) Creative problem solving 101 bro Quote: Im sure you may feel violated by the fact we removed your material (which we obviously both deemed to be inapropriate) and by the posts made on the other forum (not that id know what was said, all i saw was the post you linked to and there was nothing wrong with what i read there.) HUH??? Quote: There are two ways you can take all this, you can run and cry in the corner, or you can be a man and get on with life, and accept the fact that they are arseholes that NO ONE is forcing you to deal with. Simply cause 2 of us here deemed something inapropriate for the forum and removed it does not make us a pack of arseholes, and it does not make us like them, i was simply acting in what i believe to be the best interest of the forum and the members that make it (and i will continue to do so). Im quite sure Brut was doing the same That 1st comment is arrogant Case Overall, I like and agree with the way this forum is operated. Not that you guys give a S**t about what I think, but for the record. But the way things were done this time, smacks of the old place, and the way things were done there As far as the e-mails, hey. I'd have to say to them...grow up. If you don't like the thread, find another one or start one of your own;) But to start deleting to appease a few??? from what I read, no one wants that... So...why not go back into your archived, locked threads, and open up a NEW THREAD for those that want it and merge everything in there? |
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Posted on: 2008/2/26 0:23
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Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of men? The SHADOW knows... The CF Artist fka: STREETKNIGHT..R.I.P. www.CorvetteFlorida.com www.CorvetteInternational.com |
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Well | ||
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Last time I tried merging a thread here it turned into a mess.
I do like the idea though, sticking it all in one "bitch here" thread, because the topic is not going away as long as they keep running off their users. There was a thread like that before, but I think Bogus got tired of seeing it. (Maybe he should just quit clicking on it!) At some point it overruns this forum though. Personally I think it's better to lock threads than delete them, then people can see why it was moderated and form their own opinions, and it doesn't clog up the forum. There's really nothing to hide. We also have the ability to block specific users from certain threads. This could be used to kick one guy out of a thread that's pissing all over it and still keep the thread moving. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/26 0:30
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| RollaMo-LT4 | RE:Well | ||
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Last time I tried merging a thread here it turned into a mess. Yep, I remember that.  We know your intentions were good though. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/26 1:18
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| bogus | RE:Well | ||
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I need to think.
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Posted on: 2008/2/26 2:30
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| Mekanic | RE:Well | ||
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We all own corvettes, therefore we are all adults?
Bitching dosn't bother me, I like reading peoples opinions. I can see 1 topic overrunning the forums tho, a "Bitch about xxxx here" thread is a good idea. In fact, I've made several on other sites, and think I'm gonna make one here after I'm done with this post, not about that topic tho. Flaming dosn't bother me, in fact, sometimes it provides great entertainment and info when 2 people go at it point/counter point style. Pron, also does not bother me. I've seen plenty of bewbies and vagoo over my time, and don't mind it 1 bit. Cmon, fast cars and boobs. Give me a cold beer and we can call this forum "America" So called "curse" words don't bother me a bit. They emphasize emotion in otherwise lifeless text. the only things I don't like are spammers, hypocrites, and anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude in general. We are all adults, we are for the most part men, and we are all car guys. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/26 2:50
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~Rich Polo LT4 Yea tho I walk through the valley in the shadow of rice, I shall fear no turbo, for torque art with me. |
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| Shadow | RE:Well | ||
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Personally I think it's better to lock threads than delete them, then people can see why it was moderated and form their own opinions, and it doesn't clog up the forum. There's really nothing to hide. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/26 3:37
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Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of men? The SHADOW knows... The CF Artist fka: STREETKNIGHT..R.I.P. www.CorvetteFlorida.com www.CorvetteInternational.com |
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| MK 82 | RE:Well | ||
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[quote]Personally I think it's better to lock threads than delete them, then people can see why it was moderated and form their own opinions, and it doesn't clog up the forum. There's really nothing to hide. :withstupid] Shadow, Did you ever move a thread on Corvette Florida where the members couldn't see it? |
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Posted on: 2008/2/26 4:02
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| Rex_Ruby | RE:Well | ||
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Jeff - Understand why you'd be pissed and sure hope you stick around here
MAYBE we should have an "Other Forums Suck" section? WE all know the state CF has morphed into. Seems like I've been introduced to more "dickheads" over there in the past year than the previous 7 years on there. Maybe it's a result of more than their recent sellout, there maybe too many members there, too many personalities clashing. I've wanted to post up some of the things I could bitch about regarding CF but I feel it serves only to make me feel better. Bitching about them and other sites only brings us down to that level. As MOM used to say "if you don't have anyting nice to say don't say anything at all" :tongue: |
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Posted on: 2008/2/26 4:27
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| Shadow | RE:Well | ||
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Quote: Quote: Shadow, Sorry DT, didn't see your first question, and to answer it, yes, I have ...and if it's the one I think you're talking about;) ...I put it back;) ...and I sent a PM to the person that caused the short lived removal, and , there was no editing It went back on the public forum "as is."Fortunately, due to the nature of our CorvetteFlorida.com forum there's not a lot of adversity We're a pretty close knit bunch who actually hang out at shows and such together. As a matter of fact, there was a group of our guys and gals that did well at the Punta Gorda show on saturday Even then, as with any "family", you're going to occasionally have dissention It's just a fact of life. We dont' do a lot of bannings, we DON"T EDIT, and seldom remove or lock a thread other than SPAM or PORN. There have been a few, but mostly stuff that I wouild expect other mods to lock or delete as well....things that have gotten out of hand, or become personally threatening. We had some kid come on right after the site got started, took a little flak for something he said, and started threatening our members Say bye bye  Even his dumb arse got a PM from me. I started to call his daddy as well (yes, he was a punk kid) and let him know what his motormouth kid was up to  but decided it wasn't worth the time and effort.I'm not saying that a thread shouldn't be locked, deleted or moved. I'm saying it shouldn't be EDITED and if so, with rareity, and that people deserve a reason for some things. Not a "justification" (if you are a mod/admin, it's ultimately your decision), but a notification that it's been done and a warning if appropriate |
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Posted on: 2008/2/26 10:47
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Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of men? The SHADOW knows... The CF Artist fka: STREETKNIGHT..R.I.P. www.CorvetteFlorida.com www.CorvetteInternational.com |
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| dan0617 | RE:Well | ||
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I think this thread needs to die now. It has came full circle. JeffVette knows what he did wrong, he respects the mods for stepping up and explaining. The mods have explained and have apologized for not sending a PM instantly when the deletion took place. The mods here do care about what we think, otherwise bannings would have taken place and the discussion would have stopped on about post 4 or so of this thread. Everyone here knows what crossing the line is, and they know that the line on this forum is much harder to cross than on any other forum, and that punishment for crossing said line is minimal, if any. I respect the fact that the mods are busy. Nobody can do this full time. I think this forum is rolling along perfectly and I appreciate the fact that the mods and admins listen to the members and give the members every chance in the world to express themselves, as long as they do it even remotely appropriately. I think the members here are great, I also think they are willing to learn from their mistakes. I think the mods know that and that is why bannings don't happen here. Everyone has learned from this experience, now lets move on.
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Posted on: 2008/2/26 17:00
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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