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| Durango_Boy | Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Okay, gauge illumination has been a long battle for me. When LEDs first started becoming popular in cars I decided to ditch the yellow incandescent bulbs in the gauge cluster and speedo and tach in favor of LEDs. I already had the dash apart so changing them was easy. I simply ordered LEDs from an online company and installed them and went with it.
I had two problems. First, I replaced a few bulbs with LEDs that needed to stay standard, and the bulbs I put in were a lot dimmer than the stock bulbs. This was actually for two reasons...which is the reason I took everything apart and painted it all white. First off, the LEDs I was using were low watt basic LEDs that are not any brighter than stock bulbs anyway, and they just didn't have the power to compete. Second, the insides of all the gauges in my car are painted light blue, to reflect the yellow light from the stock bulbs, to make a white light reflection on the gauges. I solved the first problem by switching to more advanced LED bulbs that are higher watt, brighter by design, and higher LED count per bulb. These are super bright and should be a huge improvement. [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/LEDsLarge.jpg[/IMG] Next, I took everything apart and painted every blue surface a glossy white so it would reflect the light better inside the gauges so more cool white light would make it to the gauge faces. It wasn't all that hard, and while I did manage to get a little over spray on the backs of the cluster gauges...it all cleaned up nice before the install, and it should work a LOT better than the blue paint. In the pic of the individual gauges, I had the mounting plate of the oil temp gauge on backwards...that white side faces down, and the other side is stainless. I changed that after I saw I had it on backwards. I am still waiting for two new plastic housings for the speedo and tach before I can reassemble them and get them back in the dash. Once I get them I will paint them white as well, since they will be blue when I get them. What do you guys think? Will I achieve better lighting? [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/BlueRetainerLarge.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/BlueGaugesLarge.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/WhiteRetainerLarge.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/WhiteCradleLarge.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/WhiteGaugesLarge.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/CIMG1119Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/WhiteTachLarge.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2009/2/12 15:53
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| Curtis1974 | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Looks great Matt. I can't wait to see it put back together in the car.
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Posted on: 2009/2/14 10:47
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Car's approximate birthday: June 29, 1974 Purchase date: 11/23/2003 Custom candy green - Vortec roller motor - TT2's - Custom sound system - Hooker side pipes - Babe magnet :thumbleft: |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Thanks. I didn't realize that combining '82 gauges with a '77 bezel and parts would create the odd issues I've had but I think I have it all worked out and the end result is exactly what I wanted. |
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Posted on: 2009/2/14 14:08
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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So those LEDs actually shine out the side of the bulb? Perfect for a dash.
BUT.... that won't work with the dimmer will they? |
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Posted on: 2009/2/14 17:23
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| red_johnny | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Posted on: 2009/2/14 17:44
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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If they do dim, then I'm all over it.
Because the incandescents are always going to be weak yellow light, which just doesn't have the wavelengths I need to filter it to different colors. |
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Posted on: 2009/2/14 17:55
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Actually, I wouldn't recommend glossy white.
The gloss causes reflections, meaning the light is just bouncing around at random angles after leaving the bulb. This can give you uneven lighting. A matte finish is better, as it diffuses the light everywhere. (Think of driving at night on a wet, shiny road, vs. a dry road, the dry road diffuses light better, the shiny road just bounces all your light off the road and away from you, very little diffusion to get the light back to you.) Worst case, you can just remove it and spray some matte clear over the top of your white plate. |
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Posted on: 2009/2/14 17:59
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| cuisinartvette | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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AFAIK you lose the dimmer function with LEDs. Looked into it on my car and thats the feedback I received from others that have done it.
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Posted on: 2009/2/14 19:27
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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I actually have never tried the dimmer function with the LEDs, but I will just to see. I have heard they won't dim either but never really cared since I never dim the lights. Shame I actually already painted everything in the gloss white in the pics. Once it's all together I will test them in the dark garage on the bench and see if they are much brighter than before. If not I'll take them down again and use flat white. I can post links to the sites where those bulbs are found. LOTS of options to choose from. |
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Posted on: 2009/2/14 20:34
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| xccter | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Jeez Matt.
Is there any nut, bolt or part on that car you haven't touched? LOL Mark |
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Posted on: 2009/2/14 20:52
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ยด71 350/270 L48 Coupe Numbers Matching Ontario Orange 4 spd, Mid-year side pipes, deluxe black leather, ac, ps, pb, pw, tilt/tele steering wheel. 93k miles. Original rotors still riveted to the hubs! NCRS #48337 |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Ha ha, probably...but not for long. LOL. |
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Posted on: 2009/2/15 0:33
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| Curtis1974 | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Matt is the master of multi tasking on his car. At any given time the guy has at least 6 to 7 projects going on at one time!
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Posted on: 2009/2/15 1:21
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Car's approximate birthday: June 29, 1974 Purchase date: 11/23/2003 Custom candy green - Vortec roller motor - TT2's - Custom sound system - Hooker side pipes - Babe magnet :thumbleft: |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Thanks but it's not always that great of a thing...sometimes I stretch myself too thin and I end up taking longer than I needed to because I had too many irons in the fire. |
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Posted on: 2009/2/15 3:52
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| Bubs | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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DB, Thanks for turning me on to this forum, looks great
Bubs |
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Posted on: 2009/2/16 20:11
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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You're welcome. Invite as many as you like. It's a fun place. I finally got my speedo and tack housings so I can paint them and get them reassembled and tested. I'm going to be cutting and splicing plugs between the gauge light sockets so the panel can be removed by unclipping the speedo cable, the tack wiring, and three plugs for all the lights. It's also give me more slack so putting the dash panel in will be easier. Does anyone have a pic of the dash harness as it routs over the speedo and tach? I think I might be missing a harness clip that holds the harness up over the gauges. Two repairs I have to make to wires because that harness was down behind the gauges and two wires were crushed when someone bolted the column back up with the wires in the way. |
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Posted on: 2009/2/18 14:16
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| NC Kid | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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I have those lights as well. Only on the outside(reverse,license plate ect). I got them from vleds. Bright white. Much nicer and brighter than stock ones.
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Posted on: 2009/2/18 14:37
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Yeah V-Leds has some great designs, and I go back and forth between V-Leds and SuperbrightLEDs depending on who has what design and who's the cheapest. No doubt, these newer and better multi LED bulbs get expensive fast. |
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Posted on: 2009/2/18 14:49
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| psycovette | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Soo..
What the current status of this? I would love to see the finished project so i know if it is somehting I want to tackle. Later |
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Posted on: 2009/2/27 15:55
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Spend money I don't have, on things I don't need, to impress people I don't know. Anyone can restore em...it's takes a real man to cut one up |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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I just tested the Speedo bulbs in the dark and was very happy. I'm getting ready to paint the lip on the bottom side of the housing, and I will test again to see how bright it is and I'll take some pics and post them. I have a little bit more work to do to the cluster, as the shields for the warning lights aren't long enough and light bleeds through around them. Then I'll try little reflector bowls around the base of all the bulbs to see if that makes it any brighter. So far all is going to plan but none of it's completely finalized. I should be able to post some pics later this weekend. |
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Posted on: 2009/2/27 16:13
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| psycovette | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Great!! I will chack back next week to see the update. So did you make a decision on gloss or flat paint? and what color LED's are you using. Hey on a side note just thought I would let you know were having a beautifu sunny day here in the Inland Northwest (even though its cold 35 degrees ) I still uncovered her and drove her to work sure felt great!!! Have a good weekend! |
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Posted on: 2009/2/27 18:12
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Spend money I don't have, on things I don't need, to impress people I don't know. Anyone can restore em...it's takes a real man to cut one up |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Well I was having trouble with some of my center gauge cluster bulbs and after a close inspection i found some very subtle breaks in the printed circuit.
I ordered a replacement that should be here by the end of next week, from Willcox. I also found that the LEDs I was using are polarity specific. If the bulb socket is in the circuit backwards it won't light. I created this diagram to show the 12V and Ground of each bulb socket portion of the circuit. I didn't realize two are opposite from the other three. [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/ClusterCircuit2.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2009/3/1 22:12
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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I love the old printed circuit boards. I had to trace out the one in my truck from a different year so I could repin the harness correctly to match it. Previous owner had the voltmeter in series with the trans temp guage, no fuel guage, and half the illumination bulbs running off the left blinker circuit.
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Posted on: 2009/3/2 7:29
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| 76vet | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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wow. A special thread to turn our vettes into ricers! where have u all been?
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 5:33
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Really? Using a more advanced light bulb with brighter and whiter light, being safer and longer lasting...makes a car a ricer? I was picking up a little sarcasm so I laid a little down for you. LOL. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 14:36
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| Trae1976 | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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2012 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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:dontget: |
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 14:48
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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My reasoning was very simple. I wanted brighter dash lights because the stock yellow bulbs were just not cutting it and I didn't want to mess with doing this all again in a few years as they burn out again. There's a reason why when you buy these cars there's usually one or two bulbs already burned out. The PO didn't want to change them. I took the opportunity to improve on the design, change the color to white, upgrade the bulbs, and as a result I will enjoy better gauge illumination. My tests of the speedo and tach in the dark were amazing. Once my new circuit gets here I can finally test the the gauge cluster but even one of the five bulbs was an improvement over stock. The GREAT thing about this country and this hobby is that it doesn't matter if someone doesn't understand or like what we do with our cars. They are our cars and the things we do for them are for us. Maybe someone else does like the idea and wants to attempt it themselves...that's why these threads exist. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 15:14
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| Trae1976 | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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2012 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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DB, I fully understand and agree with you - I've done much of the same.
I'm just not sure how to take 76vet's comment. I'll assume it was a heavy dose of sarcasm.  |
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 15:44
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Ahh I see, I misunderstood who's post that flag was referencing. LOL...so easy to miss the obvious things when I was up until 4 am watching the premier showing of Watchmen last night and got up at 7 am to get started working in the garage...man I'm hoping for that printer circuit today. I'll be sure to take and post pics of the end result in the dark garage when I have everything buttoned up. The speedo and tach came out GREAT...couldn't be happier. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 16:09
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| red_johnny | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 16:21
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| Trae1976 | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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2012 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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Quote:
 Looking forward to seeing pics. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 16:21
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Well I was really hoping my cluster circuit would show up today so instead I went ahead and snapped some pics of the tach and speedo since they are ready to get their wiring loomed and have them installed back in the dash pad. I spent the afternoon wiring behind the dash, re-doing some stuff I did 10 years ago, and adding a few things for current projects. It's basically all ready for the finished gauges and can then all go back together. Anyway, here are the tach and speedo, both in light with no illumination and in dark with illumination. As you can see, the results of the white paint and high power LEDs is quite are quite compelling. [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/CIMG1134.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/CIMG1133.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/CIMG1140.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/CIMG1141.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2009/3/7 1:33
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| Trae1976 | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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2012 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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Great job, DB. Those look fantastic, and definitely lit up better than my stock ones. :thumbright:
But I have to curse you for adding to my project list.  |
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Posted on: 2009/3/9 2:23
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Thanks, just wait until you see the center gauge cluster. I think it'll look just as good, which will double the work load. I still don't know if using a flat white or mat white would have been better than gloss...this seemed to work but maybe it could have been better. The bulb choices were certainly spot on. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/9 2:29
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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That looks great. The greenish hue from the factory guages looks dated.
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Posted on: 2009/3/9 16:34
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| 400hp427vette | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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I think you will get better lighting from the gloss paint. What wattage do the led's state they replace?
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Posted on: 2009/3/10 3:08
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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I don't recall them stating the wattage but these SMT LEDs tend to be 3 watt or batter. I saw some advertised as 7 watt, but 3 and 5 seem to be the average. I test them on a bench battery and man do they blind me when I do that. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/10 9:59
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| dstaley | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Awesome work, DB. I wonder what silver paint would look like. Too bad it isn't easier to experiment.
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Posted on: 2009/3/11 1:18
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Flat white will always reflect and diffuse the most light. Any color darker than that will absorb some of the wavelengths of light (hence the color you see reflecting off it.) |
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Posted on: 2009/3/11 4:06
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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I got my circuit in and briefly tested the gauge cluster lights in the dark garage last night and I was VERY impressed. I have one socket that is not connecting well with the bulb...so I am going to swap it out for one of the warning lights that doesn't have a function and get it into the light slot. I'll take pics tomorrow maybe if I have time because the results certainly made it all worth it and for someone that didn't have to order a circuit this wouldn't be a hard project...a few hours to disassemble and paint and reassemble. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/11 9:53
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| 400hp427vette | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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I cant wait to see the finished product. Please let me now how much brighter/clearer it really is.
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Posted on: 2009/3/12 1:57
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| Raphiki | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Hey DB! Glad I found where you're hanging out! One question - where did you get the bulbs for the speedo and tach? I've got a '70 so it doesn't use the blade type bulbs. If you remember from the other place, I have blue leds in mine now but I'm not too happy with the color or brightness. Yours look great.
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Posted on: 2009/3/16 20:38
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Thanks, so glad to see you've joined us. I got them from V-LEDs.com. They are not cheap but man are they bright. LOTS to choose from, and trust me, spending the time to paint the inside of all the gauges white so they reflect better is WORTH IT. I took pics but they sucked so I am going to take more when they are in the car in a day or so. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/16 23:02
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| Raphiki | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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I tried painting the inside of the small gauges with chrome paint thinking it would reflect better. Big mistake. Makes for very uneven lighting. Something I'll be redoing.
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Posted on: 2009/3/17 1:09
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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I used a gloss white with good results but as mentioned a few pages ago, flat white would be better. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/17 1:43
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| Rodsknockin | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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D_B your so creative. Yet do they still dim? or are you stuck with bright?
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Posted on: 2009/3/20 0:22
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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LOL...poser or not...your question is still valid and I still don't have an answer. I have not installed any of the dash components back in the car...still wiring a few things, so I do not yet have the headlight switch connected to the harness. Once it's in I can test the lights and the dimmer. I seem to remember it worked on my last LED attempt but I just don't know for sure. Either way I like my gauges bright so I doubt I will ever dim them even if it does work. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/20 2:00
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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It worked GREAT. I have it all installed and have tested it a few times and love the results.
The pics aren't that great because of the low level light...focusing was difficult. However, you can see they are very bright and quite white compared to stock. The blue tint is actually just in the pics...the gauges are not that blue at all to the naked eye. The dimmer function does not work. Not like it matters to me I wanted them brighter anyway and I have no intentions of dimming the lights at all. [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/SpeedoTachIllumination.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/GaugeIllumination.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2009/8/2 14:07
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| Matatk | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Looks great! Super clear and bright.
Wonder if there is a way to make them dimmable if somebody wanted that? Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/8/3 13:21
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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I don't know enough about how all that stuff works but I'm sure it's possible with work to the headlight switch or maybe something added to the wiring harness to make it all work.Never looked into it because I never knew it didn't work and I'll never use it. |
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Posted on: 2009/8/4 0:43
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| 400hp427vette | Re: Better Gauge Illumination. | ||
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Unless you have a flat surface chrome is the worst thing to try to reflect light from. Chrome reflects light like a mirror and with an uneven surface it will make your dash look like a broken disco ball. |
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Posted on: 2009/8/12 2:41
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