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| bogus | The Price | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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I have been doing some math and rather like the outcome.
Economics is, when it comes right down to it, about choices. There are good and bad, but short of really stupid, there are no wrong answers. The right answer is always what fits your goals and what doesn't negatively effect your own cash flow. With all of that said, I made the conscious decision to clean up my 92 vs replace it. The cost of replacement was the sticking point. The Vette I would get is a newer C6. And the best $$ point for one of those is in the $25k-$35k range. And newer equals payments. Top all of that off with the added insurance (about $300 a year) and an exponential increase in my annual registration fee (from a nominal $80 a year to $600!), it wasn't where I wanted our money to go. If we were to buy anything automotive, it would be mutually beneficial. A Vette for me wouldn't be mutually beneficial, no matter how its cut. Back to the math. Over the last 12 months, I have put quite a bit of money - and time - into my Vette. The totals: Wheels/Tires - $1500 Engine out + clutch (last summer project!) - $2000 Paint - $2000 Total - $5500 Now... a bit of a break down, especially the engine out + clutch. Flywheel - $950 Clutch - $300 Seals/gaskets - $100 DynaSpark - $500 Taylor Wires + NGK plugs - $100 Fluids - $50 Total - $2000 Now, I suspect I am forgetting something there, but those are the big items. I could also add in the major repair from January 09 when the belt exploded, taking out my LTCC harness. That added another $500 to the mix. All in all, it was money well spent, in my opinion. It has renewed the car and will make it look nice for a few years to come. At the same time, I have saved a C4 from the indignities of aging out. When I go to the shows, the number of C5s and C6s is just astounding, so keeping a C4 on the road is always a good thing! |
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Posted on: 2010/5/9 19:02
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| Durango_Boy | Re: The Price | ||
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I love the work you did and totally appreciate why.
That being said, I will own a C6, and THAT being said, I have no intentions of EVER taking it to a show unless there is something special about it, or unless it's a classic in 20 years. I just hate the fact that a new off the show room floor C6 with NO mods at all will beat out a project car that some enthusiast has invested thousands of dollars and hours into building...like a C4. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/9 20:08
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| DaleD | Re: The Price | ||
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I've often listed that as an advantage of having a C4. As far as I'm concerned almost any old car is cool. Keeping an old car nice requires serious effort. That's why when people go nuts about C4's not being as fast as C5's or C6's, I think they miss the point.
A new C6 is just a new car. A very, very cool new car, but a new car. It hasn't acquired it's soul yet. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/9 21:23
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| BillH | Re: The Price | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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I definately agree. The math, well I prefer to take the amount of money and divide it by the number of years I've driven the car. Makes the numbers a little easier to take. I also leave out maintainence items, plugs/wire,tires,battery. For my 92, an opti,alternator and some gaskets. Under $700 for 5 years = $140/year, not too shabby. Your $5k is good for what? 10 years? So $500/year, not bad. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/9 21:43
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| bogus | Re: The Price | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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My gripe is with the checkbook hotrodder... the one who buys the new car then tosses another $20k wirth of mods on it. Then taking it to car shows and hoping to blind the fans with bling. Cars like that envaribly win Peoples Choice - they are so loud that the average person can't see the problem for all the bling. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/9 22:49
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| BillH | Re: The Price | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Andy, you & DB stop up here for Hot August Nights, ain't no damn new cars in that show.
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Posted on: 2010/5/9 23:04
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: The Price | ||
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Sometimes friends bring up your shortcomings and that brings needed repairs to the forefront. Right Andy.
 But they are right. I've put off painting my 90 for years. It ran pretty good the first few years without much outlay but gradually some things needed attention. I'm not a wrench. I play with some of the easier stuff but leave the harder stuff to thiose in the know. But really, that car has treated me well. Repalaced the leather on the seats,$1000, new exhaust $650, tires $850, plugs, wires, egr valve x 2 , brake booster, slave cylinder, injectors, fuel pump, fuel filter, cluster rebuild. The 90 6 speed is a joy to drive and the fact that it doesn't feel like a new car is a plus. It feels like a performance car. Seat of the pants driving machine. No, it's not a killer on the 1/8th mile in it's stock format, I didn't take home any trophies from the autocross or cruise in car shows.My red one, now that it has it's new injectors, can give a new stock C6 a run for it's money. Course it's sporting a supercharged 383. That sucka runs like a scalded dog compared to the stock L98. It has a new top, new leather seat covers, got new wheels and tires a couple of years ago, new injectors, plugs, wires, brake pads. It has some need for paint work too on the nose and tail. probably a whole new paint job or ghost flames would be a cheaper way out. That thing is a blast to lay into. You better be paying attention or it will get away from you. I own C4s because I like C4s. Believe it or not, I can own just about any generation Corvette I want. I've known a lot of you guys for a few years now and if you tell me you bought a Camaro, Mustang or an EVO I wouldn't put you down, Get what you like and drive that mofo. Anyway Andy, I'm glad your still a C4 guy. Somebody has to do it. Might as well be you. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/9 23:38
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| Ultraman | Re: The Price | ||
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2015 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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My C4 is something I can work on myself. My initial investment is low so I with kids in college can have an affordable performance car. I like what Dale says about the new cars having no soul yet. I get attached to a machine, I put hours of time working on it making it better and I am proud of the way it looks and runs.
I am not saying that my bucket list does not include picking up a future new GS or whatever the hot Vette is at Bowling Green and driving it home. That would be special for me and I would keep that car for as long as I live and then it would go to my son and some day it would also have soul and maybe a lot of meaning for those who inherited it. All of our C4's started out as someones dream and they were excited when they picked it up and after awhile they moved on to the next dream. I grew up when all the C2's were brand new and to get a newer car ment faster and better. My C4 is the best handling and put together Vette that I have owned. A new C6 should be that much more refinement and so on it goes. If any of us won the powerball you know most of us would have a new ZR1 ordered and a Ferrari and a..... The C4's have got me back into Corvettes and that has been good. I like what Andy is saying. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 0:24
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| biggrizzly | Re: The Price | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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I should have read this thread before commenting on the opportunity to buy a 2003 Anniversary Convertible.
You guys are exactly correct and that is why buying another newer Corvette is not what will make me happy. My best friend owns a new Z06 and it is so awesome, but I can never afford one of those cars, not now and not in the near future. What I can do, is continue to keep my old girl going. If I bought even a five year old Vette I'd have to finance it and then I'd never be able to mod it, because I'm paying for it first. So, I will be happy to stay with my C4 that I have made very personally mine over the past ten years. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 2:10
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| bogus | Re: The Price | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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It's nice that we are having this discussion.
I have been convinced for some years now that things won't make you happy for the sake of having things. If you want something, it must satisfy a bigger need. I wonder about these folks that buy the newest thing and then throw a ton of cash at it (as stated above). I get a lot more satisfaction by improving the old and making it better than before. And I have the cuts and aches to prove I did it myself! I just got done doing an oil change. It was much needed, considering I haven't touched it since I put it all together last August! That means that in 8 months and about 4500 miles it has lost/burned 1/2 quart. The level was half way down the add area. There is a bit of weaping at the front main... I also fixed a minor exhaust leak... the collectors were a bit lose. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 4:13
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Matatk | Re: The Price | ||
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Well, I have to say that I love driving my car. I'd probably love driving a 2008, too, but driving my car always makes me feel better. I just spent a buttload on the new engine and transmission, more than I wanted to but oh well. I don't plan on getting rid of it ever, or if not for a long time. I'll continue to work on the small things that bother me until I have it where I want it. If I bought a new one, I'd just have to start all over!
Matthew |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 11:23
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| flyboy | Re: The Price | ||
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I didn't have a hobby car for a couple of years.
Then I purchased my '91 in 03-07. It has been a three year love affair. The cost of upkeep/upgrade is irrelevant. C4ever. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 12:20
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: The Price | ||
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If it was me I'd wait till it was crying ....... |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 14:40
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| bogus | Re: The Price | ||
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Funny, Tommy...
The front and rear mains have a tendency to weap a little oil no matter what... Trust me, I am not replacing either seal at this point! The transmission, tho dusty, was dry! Same with the exhaust. In short, the undercarrage looked GREAT! |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 15:05
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| BillH | Re: The Price | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Gotta respectfully disagree, Andy. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 15:12
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| bogus | Re: The Price | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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hm... never seen a really dry one... what am I doing wrong with install?
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 15:23
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: The Price | ||
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I used to own a '70 Challenger RT/SE with a 383mag
to this day I regret selling that car I'm not making that mistake again |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 17:14
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| jdtireman | Re: The Price | ||
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I love my 93 and it gets more respect from the average looky loo on cruize nights than even I give it. I guess we take for granted what we have sometimes. You all know what I mean. But like DB, I will get a C6 in the next 3 to 5 years, as soon as I have the $$, storage space and find the right car. I like the idea of buying and keeping a C6 until it's a classic that some futur grandson will drool over. Right now I'm thinking a GS or a ZHZ, supercharged of course  Keep the shiny side up! |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 17:19
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| CentralCoaster | Re: The Price | ||
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I'm all for keeping an old car on the road, but it seems like all my stuff gets shittier by the year, despite all the time I put into it.
Probably 75% is maintenance, 25% improvements. I guess the trick is knowing your limitations, and keeping the car looking nice. For example, I haven't gotten the car painted, and it looks like ass. This makes it somewhat depressing to own and spend time on. I have some of the tools to try painting it, but my limitations are a paintbooth and time/motivation. Had I spent $5K on that 2 years ago I would not have regretted it, and I'd feel better about doing other work on the car. At least it doesn't rust. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 17:41
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: The Price | ||
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Chair-man of the bored
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Never too late. Call now ..... Painters are waiting for your call. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 17:55
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| BillH | Re: The Price | ||
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Donno, and I can't take the credit for an expert install on my rear one. At 80k, when I pulled the oil pan, obviously the bell hsg.cover had yo come off. The back of the flywheel and the rear of the block were totally dry (I was supprised but happy). The front was replaced 10k ago w/o pulling the front cover and had no leak when I pulled the opti the other week, so I can take credit for that one but, it's that's only 10k. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 22:10
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| BillH | Re: The Price | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Oh, the motivation to do the bodywork/sanding is almost unobtainium. It takes a month just to convince yourself that you're going to do it. A week of staring at the car thinking "I don't want to start this today". And you still haven't picked up a piece of sandpaper, ask me how I know. I hate bodywork. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 22:15
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| bobges | Re: The Price | ||
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A c-4 is a cool car, There is not a time that i have had it out and did not get a complement, even got a thumbs up from a kid in a Mustang the other day. Love driving it
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 22:21
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: The Price | ||
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For me the math is very simple. I have a Corvette. It has a body style I love. It has a lot of creature comforts I love. It has great speed and cornering abilities. It is paid for!! It is easy to fix if something breaks. What else do I need? Nothing.
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Posted on: 2010/5/10 23:42
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| SpectatorRacing | Re: The Price | ||
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We painted my buddy's C4 for $800. Of course our friend owns the body shop. We did all the prep (two guys, about 12 hours) sanded the car, taped everything, etc. We had thier pro do the painting with GM paint. Baked it in the booth, and viola, beautiful paint job. Black was the cheapest paint, red was going to be more than double. Basically we paid for the paint, some supplies, and gave the guy $100 to paint it.
The moral of the story is that you should befreind a guy with a body shop and you can save a lot of money |
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Posted on: 2010/5/11 14:17
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| bogus | Re: The Price | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I was watching the Mecum auction from Orlando. It was a replay from January.
However, a mid-70s Vette came up and the commontater said, and I paraphrase, "this may not be the most valuable, big engined Vette made, but it will still get you into the Corvette family." Point made. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/11 14:31
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: The Price | ||
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Unfortunately, due to government intervention and quirky design flaws, there have been a lot of backdoor suitors in the Corvette family. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/11 15:56
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| Ultraman | Re: The Price | ||
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2015 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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What doesn't make sense to me right now is the amount of lot drop the new Vettes or any car for that matter is getting hit with. I am thinking 20% or more. You have to want new real bad to pay that much and see it worth so much less in a years time. I don't see how they are selling many new Vettes at all.
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Posted on: 2010/5/11 16:32
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2010 Grand Sport Coupe Gone but not forgotten... Vote DeSantis in 2024.... Make the IRS go away... |
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| jdtireman | Re: The Price | ||
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That built in depreciation means smart guys like us pay so much less when we buy them in 2 or 3 years... Look at Craigslist and you can find a 06 or 07 for 30k or less and new 2010 is 80K or more. How smart do you have to be to figure this stuff out?
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Posted on: 2010/5/11 20:25
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| Matatk | Re: The Price | ||
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Well that 2010 for 80k is a Z06...a little bit of a difference. The base C6 is like $42k new plus taxes, but of course you can add up all the options and be over 50k. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/11 22:35
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| bogus | Re: The Price | ||
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The thing is, you won't find many Vettes on lots. Yea, there are some, but I would bet many are cancelled orders. Most Corvettes are built to order and there are a lot of folks who have scrimped, saved, planned and dreamed of that day they can order their perfect Corvette and get museum delivery.
Corvettes are not normally floorplanned, so they don't have excess inventory. The $42k base Corvette is out there, but you have to order it! And it is a killer value. But much of the depreciation can be related to the economy. Ppl can't afford to keep them and need to off load, so they are firesaling them. Desperation is a bitch. I do have that dream of being able to walk into a Chevy dealer and plunking down the cash on my new ZR1, with museum delivery. It's just something that would only happen once and it would have to be special... buying a used Vette isn't on that level. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/12 14:14
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: The Price | ||
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I guess you must be buying tickets for the Powerball Lottery. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/12 14:45
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| BillH | Re: The Price | ||
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I am.  And I'm going to do the exact same thing as Andy, with the addition of stopping by ProTeam and getting the 67 435horse shipped. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/12 14:59
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| CentralCoaster | Re: The Price | ||
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You'll feel special right up until they hand you the keys. After that you're their bitch. You'll feel like a chump when you're battling with the service "advisor" over whats not covered by warranty, and what they f**** up while putting their best grease monkey on the job, that you have to pay to train on your car by trial and error for a week while you drive a loaner Malibu 4 cylinder (if you're lucky.) |
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Posted on: 2010/5/13 6:08
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| bogus | Re: The Price | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I will still do it myself.
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Posted on: 2010/5/13 6:57
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| pappyfreebird | Re: The Price | ||
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i rekon im wid 95vet ..ceptin i r still lookin fer them creature comforts but mines a 84 n z51...nawt that fast nawt the coolest but its pd fer n i kin still fix a few thangs wid a lil help...
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Posted on: 2010/5/13 12:01
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| Fluff | Re: The Price | ||
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All my vehicles are old 93 C4, 93 Chrysler and 89 Jeep. Theres definitely a lot of satisfaction, with the occasional frustration, in keeping them running. I guess I would like a nice new 6, but wouldnt part with the C4 for it all academic, I cant afford a new motor.
Just wondering:- do any of you guys like/dislike part of the C4 body design? I look at it sometimes and say to myself .. I like the look of the rear, kinda like a J-Lo bum, big and round. Then Ill think I like the hood with the wheel humps. Then sometimes I look at the whole picture and somehow (cant explain it) think it does all quite fit together .. phaps its me! |
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Posted on: 2010/5/13 13:51
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| bogus | Re: The Price | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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It has taken me many years to come to the conclusion that new and wonderful will lead to nothing but financial ruin.
When I was younger, I had a tough time understanding why someone who could afford newer kept that old clunker on the road. Then I realized the benefits... no car payment being the biggie! But the other is a comfort zone. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/13 14:34
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| BillH | Re: The Price | ||
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Even more amusing: the people making lease payments. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/13 14:48
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| biggrizzly | Re: The Price | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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Quote:
Andy, I guess it's different in many parts of the country right now. The two larger dealerships in the area have at least 10 to 30 vettes on the lot with two ZR1s in the showroom and at least 5 or six Z06 and maybe a little more GS cars. Not as many people are special ordering as you might think. There are some, but I meet every new Corvette buyer from Sport Chevrolet as they get a free membership to our club compliments of the dealership. I always aske them thier motives, likes and dislikes. Some come to the club meeting some do not. There have been a couple museum deliveries that I know from our dealership but not as many as a few years back. It would be interesting to see the actual numbers from the NCM. Kevin, As far as crappy service and mechanics go... again I'm sure there are plenty of bad dealerships and service departments, but they should have been cleaned out with the other dead wood dealerships that have been killing the good reputations of good dealerships. I know none of them are perfect and some are real con-artists, but there are hard working dealerships out there trying to keep thier customers happy. If they aren't then shame on them in this economy. I also own one of those EcoTech 4Clinder Malibus and it has better displacement and horsepower than a lot of other four cylinders in its class. Gets great gas mileage and is a great commuter car for my wife. We will reserve the 8 passenger van for your next service call Kev. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/13 14:53
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| Fluff | Re: The Price | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
My old mum told me when I was a kid to avoid cars and women as they'll both make you poor. It's a toss up which one was most true! Quote:
That must be where the missus wins I guess |
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Posted on: 2010/5/13 15:32
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Transfer
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