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| CentralCoaster | Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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 The metal backing which captures the outer bearing race broke off during my track day. I noticed a little extra camber on that wheel in some photos and sure enough had a clunking on the way home. When it happened, it allowed the bearing to unseat, creating lots of slop, which also makes the bearing narrower. This part of the bearing takes all the compression force from the nut. Once it fails, the nut is no longer tight. Luckily the spindle nut and cotter pin prevent anything from falling off in most faiulres. Hopefully I didn't damage anything else from the stub axle and loose outer bearing half hammering around in there. These were the tapered rollers from a group buy a few years back. Other side seems fine, but I may change it also as a precaution. I had some lightly used NDH AC-delco bearings to throw back in there in the meantime. [IMG]http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt181/CentralCoaster/Oct-08-2011-SpeedVentures2-Blue1150amCP4_4092a.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2011/10/31 23:14
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| BillH | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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That sucks, K.
I halfway remember that discussion. Were those the bearings that were supposed to superior to the A/C's? |
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Posted on: 2011/10/31 23:21
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| bogus | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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yea, the taper was supposed to deal with lateral loading better... in theory.
It could be the inherent design of the bearing hub is the problem, or these are junk. I can't assess which and it would be unfair to cast blame without further empirical evidence. A lot of folks are still running on these units and this is the first failure; a track failure at that. I would have to call it an aberration unless more start to fail all at the same time. I just got a pair of Tommy Morrison surplus rear bearings with Mobil 1 synthetic grease in them. The M1 grease is supposed to help them live longer by not breaking down into waxes and losing lubrication ability. For $100 each I will give it a shot. |
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Posted on: 2011/11/1 0:22
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| jaa1992 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Guru
 
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Quote:
Not the first failure of these. I thought I posted something early last year (or maybe it was the other forum) where mine went after just a few trackdays. On mine it was the passenger side and I replaced both with NOS AC/Delco. So far those have held up for a couple seasons. |
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Posted on: 2011/11/1 20:15
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| jonszr1 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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so do you guys think stk is the way to go ?????
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Posted on: 2011/11/1 20:30
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i have a blast playing with my 4 babies 2 zr1s and 2 mustangs 68 coupe with a jon bennit 408 art car fully rollered c4 with a gearvendors over drive .88 mustang built by my kids with a ported lt5 and a bill boudreau blue printed zf 6 spd. with these 4 ... |
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Quote:
The SKF930024 seemed to be the best according to an earlier thread here. I got mine from Rock Auto, which was the best price with the discount. |
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Posted on: 2011/11/1 22:49
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2004 Vert. 475hp. Built by Vengeance Racing |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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I was debating not getting the 32 spline subaxles because they couldn't use the tapered bearings.
Looks like I make the right decision. maybe drilling a grease hole in the standard bearings is the solution? |
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Posted on: 2011/11/1 23:06
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Senior Guru
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Short of something expensive like the 32 spline setup, my experience has shown the NDH bearings to hold up the best. SKF was 2nd. Everything else I tried was either chinese junk, or these tapered cylindrical rollers.
The original bearings were NDH, and I've gotten old Chicago Rawhide green boxes with NDH in them, but the newer ones under the SKF banner, did not. NDH was at some point absorbed by GM, and I have no idea what's out there now. Have any of you guy found ID marks on your OEM bearings? |
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Posted on: 2011/11/2 3:31
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| bogus | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I just looked at my new ones... and this is what I found:
On the back side of the wheel mating surface: FC#2 and 180* opposite, KLC3. The # represents an unreadable character. On the bearing mating surface to the upright, we have 2 groups of markings: 1. At one bolt hole: 53; across to the other bolt hole, same plain, JP 2. At one bolt hole: X; across to the other bolt hole, same plain, 025 Memory serves, most GM suppliers are not allowed to disclose they are unless marketing agreements have been signed. Think Crane cams and the gold rockers in the LT4. |
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Posted on: 2011/11/2 4:21
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Senior Guru
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I find it interesting that that flange sees any load. When it broke, the bearing basically came off the roller.
This doesn't make sense to me. If this is in fact true, the bearing is getting unloaded any time its on the outside of a turn.... when it should be doing exactly the opposite... in fact it should be able to take thrust in both directions on the bearing surface... which means there's supposed to be two opposing sets of angular rollers. Would love to cut it open but i don't have the equipment. |
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Posted on: 2011/11/3 4:09
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| bogus | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I bet NelsonV has access to the equipment. I will ask him. Don't throw that away quite yet.
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Posted on: 2011/11/3 6:02
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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They come apart pretty easy
no special equipment or cutting needed They rely on the subaxle to keep it together. |
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Posted on: 2011/11/3 16:00
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| jaa1992 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Guru
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One thing I found was to check the torque on the axle nut often.
After putting in the NOS bearings I found after one event my passenger nut had backed off enough to need re-torquing. So now I check before putting it on the trailer and each morning at an event. I've lost the castellated covers long ago, but I don't think they would help much. |
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Posted on: 2011/11/3 22:00
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Senior Guru
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I disagree. The nut on this one didn't move. The bearing failed and collapsed on itself, which unloaded the nut.
At first I saw the nut was loose... but it was just an indicator of a failed bearing. The nut should really never come loose, it's held in with a cotter pin. That rotating portion of the bearing is a solid piece. It should never, ever, change in dimension to allow the nut to unload. It's not like other wheel bearing types where the nut preloads the bearing. Bearing wear should not cause the nut to unload. |
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Posted on: 2011/11/3 23:24
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| bogus | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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The million dollar question: Where were these bearings made?
If they are from China, all bets are off. Their metallurgy has been suspect for a long time... |
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Posted on: 2011/11/4 0:22
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Aboatguy | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Senior Guru
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Mine have held up so far...but I stay off the track ......
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Posted on: 2011/11/6 3:10
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| jaa1992 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Guru
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Quote:
Thats what happened to my tapered bearing - failed inside seal and boom, nut Really loose. I don't have the cotter pin in mine cause the covers are gone. When I installed the NOS bearings I torqued the nut to 165. After the event it had just enough play I could feel it. Did some research and found 200 is a better number. Torqued to that spec and even though I check it before durring and after track events I haven't had to tighten it and it has no play. |
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Posted on: 2011/11/7 13:43
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| Steve40th | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Elite Guru
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At least you didnt wreck and cause even more damage.
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Posted on: 2011/11/8 0:05
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Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika |
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| MK 82 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Senior Guru
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Easy guys!! One failure does not a trend make. Are these the ones that Rifle Coach was selling?
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Posted on: 2011/11/8 0:54
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| SpectatorRacing | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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If you track your C4 on R compound tires you will have bearing problems. There is no cost effective solution out there.
Kevin started the questions five years ago on the CF, nothing has changed. The tapered experiment proved to be a bust, this is one of many failures from folks who hoped it would work and found out it did not. James and Matt C. proved it in a matter of days. If you track your C4 rear bearings are a wear item. No brand name bearing will save you. The tenth guy to try making a rebuildable rear bearing (Brian was probably the first) just popped up a few months ago. He succeeded, but guess what? It ended up costing within 10% of a new one. Labor to remove and replace is unchanged, so why bother? I am a broken record but I speak the truth. |
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Posted on: 2011/11/8 18:38
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| jonszr1 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Senior Guru
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how about if you use the car for drag racing. would the tapers be good for that?
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Posted on: 2011/11/9 3:32
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i have a blast playing with my 4 babies 2 zr1s and 2 mustangs 68 coupe with a jon bennit 408 art car fully rollered c4 with a gearvendors over drive .88 mustang built by my kids with a ported lt5 and a bill boudreau blue printed zf 6 spd. with these 4 ... |
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| rklessdriver | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Senior Guru
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There is no side load on the brg drag racing - so IME they last just like regular street driving. Heck the brgs in my 92 are stock and at 81K miles (and doing just fine).... I've owned the car since 2004 when it had just less than 40K on it.... it's been drag raced almost every weekend of race season, every year of my ownership. When I need to finally buy brgs I'm just going back with good (NSK or Timken) stock types. Will |
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Posted on: 2011/11/9 4:47
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| SpectatorRacing | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Elite Guru
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It also seemed to help if you could "season" the bearings for 1000 miles or so before tracking the car. However that is not possible for lots of us who's cars stopped being street legal years ago.
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Posted on: 2011/11/9 19:40
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Senior Guru
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Makes sense in theory, and these had 5K+ easy miles on them before they saw the track. But it wasn't a heat failure. It was a stress failure. I believe break-in will help reduce heat failures, where the grease boils and blows out the seals, causing faster wear. Quote:
I don't understand... why not? because they look tacky? Those cotter pins might save your ass someday IMO. I don't run centercaps, needless cosmetic crap! |
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Posted on: 2011/11/9 21:19
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| jaa1992 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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I just lost them  Many moons ago at a track event when one of the bearings was going (It was either the OEM or the set before the tapered) and I had to make one run. I pulled the covers off, tightened the crap out of the axle nuts and promptly lost the covers. Ran my one run and drove it the 40 miles home and replaced both bearings. Can't find the things anywhere |
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Posted on: 2011/11/10 13:36
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| jonszr1 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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there is a corvette junk yard in phoenix that has these if you need them . pm me if you'd like me to score a couple for you .
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Posted on: 2011/11/10 17:03
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i have a blast playing with my 4 babies 2 zr1s and 2 mustangs 68 coupe with a jon bennit 408 art car fully rollered c4 with a gearvendors over drive .88 mustang built by my kids with a ported lt5 and a bill boudreau blue printed zf 6 spd. with these 4 ... |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Senior Guru
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Rock Auto sells them. Dorman 615149 Also the nuts and washers. I replaced mine with new awhile back. I recommend bending some tangs in on the retainer so it stays snug on the axle and doesn't rattle around.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1041208,parttype,1620  |
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Posted on: 2011/11/12 0:01
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| jaa1992 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Guru
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Thank you for the part number. I could never find it with a regular search
I'll add it to the off season parts list. |
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Posted on: 2011/11/12 18:38
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| jhammons01 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Senior Guru
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Sorry for bumping an old thread but....
I think a good point may have been overlooked. Every bearing will "break in" once you start using it. So, if you torque the nut run the bearing and do nothing else, the bearing may become loose..... I mean, I am going off of bicycle and motorcycle experience, but it makes sense.... So, maybe, Torque the nut, run the bearing and allow the thing to "Break in", and then re-torque the nut a 1000 miles later or after a single run at the track...metal has a way of "moving" sometimes |
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Posted on: 2012/3/6 15:17
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| istter1 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Elite Guru
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I found out my Mufflers were not the cause of the dron sound I keep hearing.
When they go bad they go bad. I like this thread I learned a lot form it. I went with Timken 84-96 Rear Wheel Bearing/Hub Assembly a bit high priced but I didn't pay what Zip Corvett was asking. Lol Since you guys had so many opinions about these made in America vs. others how do these rate. Already installed them this week. You guys seem to recomend  retorking them after about 1000 miles?Same tork or ??? Attach file:  timken.jpg (51.28 KB) |
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Posted on: 2012/4/7 3:26
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Only I can change my life. No one can do it for me. Carol Burnett |
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| jonszr1 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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i re torque mine after i put them on and ran them for 5k miles found out that they had lost 40lbs of tq. it cant hurt so yes i would .
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Posted on: 2012/4/8 1:39
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i have a blast playing with my 4 babies 2 zr1s and 2 mustangs 68 coupe with a jon bennit 408 art car fully rollered c4 with a gearvendors over drive .88 mustang built by my kids with a ported lt5 and a bill boudreau blue printed zf 6 spd. with these 4 ... |
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| Matatk | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Webmaster
 
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In general, Timken makes top quality bearings. I wouldn't expect those to be anything less.
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Posted on: 2012/4/8 4:37
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| bogus | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Timken is very good. Canadian? Or am I confused with NTN?
Whatever, still excellent. Torque to 200 ft lbs. |
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Posted on: 2012/4/8 5:33
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| istter1 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Thanks guys. Car gets better with time. Having a great time working on it. |
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Posted on: 2012/4/8 16:26
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Only I can change my life. No one can do it for me. Carol Burnett |
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| bogus | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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As much as people try to blast the C4, inherently, it's a pretty good car. Age and lack of maintenance has made them unreliable.
My 92, short of this past winters issues, hasn't been that much of an issue over the 12 years I have owned it. The way I figure, I am going to have costs involved with ownership, no matter what. I don't want payments, and I don't have them. My insurance is reasonable, and my state reg fees are ok. Is it the newest of the new? No, but it is still a Corvette, and it is still included in events. I wish more people would take them places!!! |
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Posted on: 2012/4/8 21:25
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| istter1 | Re: Rear bearing failure: tapered roller | ||
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Can't agree with you more. What I am doing now should have been done years ago. The corvett is a kick in the ass  |
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Posted on: 2012/4/9 0:29
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Only I can change my life. No one can do it for me. Carol Burnett |
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