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PLRX ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
Senior Guru
SoCal
212 Posts
Member since:
2009/11/24 5:57



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The only one thing I did not mess with it, it's now a "must do". There is play on the driver's side yoke and it has to be fixed. If I dont fix it, it will start leaking gear oil and on the long run I'll have to do it anyways. I figure if it has to be fixed, this is the time for me to upgrade. Its a 3.45 from factory, the 4.10 I read many different opinions and a 3.73 is only 0.28 difference. I figure a 3.90 would give me a change like the the 3.07 gives to the 2.59 on the automatics transmission. My 92 was a 2.59 but, my 95 is a 3.07 and the second I stepped on it I knew there was something different and once I got on the freeway I confirmed it.

I think the 3.90 would eliminate some of the Magnaflow drone I get on the freeway.

I already removed most of the suspension components to remove the trailing arms and knuckle. Today I removed the exhaust, emergency cable, disconnected the driveshaft's U-joint and removed the C-Beam's bolts. Thanks to the ZFDoc's plates that was easy.



I got the whole assembly off, I got no idea how the
heck I'll put back in there b ut, I'll let you guys know.

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/390.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/3901.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/3902.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/3903.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/3904.jpg[/IMG]

I'll leave there hanging until I get paid in few days. :D
This part received an enourmous amount of abuse and I was able to pick it up
with my hands. I can't do that with the ZF transmission.

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/3905.jpg[/IMG]
Posted on: 2011/2/22 22:18
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pianoguy Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Apple Valley, MN
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As always, thanks a bunch for the pics - looking forward to seeing how this comes out! That's been on my "maybe one of these days" list for a while now.
Posted on: 2011/2/22 22:23
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Ultraman Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Big work! Be interesting to see what you end up with for a ratio.
Posted on: 2011/2/22 22:36
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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SoCal
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It is no picnic to remove that SOB, the price is no picnic either. I figure, you take a Vette to the shop they will hammer you on labor to remove/install the differential. Add parts and labor for the gears.

Remember, everything started when I discovered the bad trailing arms' bushings.
Posted on: 2011/2/22 22:38
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mseven Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Motor City Madhouse
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I thought the rear wasn't too bad what I don't like is yanking the trans.
I agree with prices though...I have a chunk of $$$ in mine.
Posted on: 2011/2/22 23:34
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pianoguy Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Apple Valley, MN
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Are you having a shop set it up for you?
Posted on: 2011/2/22 23:39
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�Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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SoCal
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Quote:

pianoguy wrote:
Are you having a shop set it up for you?


Oh yes, I have never done a diff. I dont even have the required tools to dial that bad boy. I would like to learn, this would make a great rep for anyone specially if you drop the labor co$t on it.
Posted on: 2011/2/23 0:02
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bogus Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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San Pedro, CA
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The last time I checked, the tool cost to do gears isn't overwhelming, what is is the time it takes to set them right and all the shims needed and such.

Now, my comments come from a strange combo of reading car mags and a friend who had a blown up GM 10 bolt from a 1995 Camaro. He learned a lot about gear setting, incase he had to DIY it... and he found that the tools required were about $400 or $500... It's the constant take apart, set gaps, reassemble, turn, find the bind, fix, move on thing that got old. This is even more problematic in live axle cars where binding can occur from the cheap junk casings they are made of.

It is for all the reasons above that if I ever get the burr in my bonnet to get gears, someone else will set them into the pumpkin. So there.
Posted on: 2011/2/23 0:13
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RestoMod57 Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Phoenix, AZ
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Looks like you have a Dana 44. I rebuilt my Dana 36 a little while ago - it's not difficult. Since you already have a shop press, that's the big tool for this job.

I think CC did this too, but not sure. Anyway, you also need a dial indicator, digital caliper, snap-ring pliers, bearing splitter, and large sockets. I think $300-$350 is about right for tools. Then you have the cost of the gears, and I would recommend you buy a master rebuild kit as well. While you're in there you may as well replace all bearings and seals.

There are two chapters in my book that detail this procedure completely. Send me a PM and I'll email you the chapters - just to help out a fellow guru. But if you don't want to tackle this, no big deal.

As bogus said though, be prepared to spend time fitting and re-fitting the shims for proper setup. PM me if you want the chapters.

Steve M.
Posted on: 2011/2/23 14:46
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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SoCal
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Quote:

RestoMod57 wrote:
Looks like you have a Dana 44. I rebuilt my Dana 36 a little while ago - it's not difficult. Since you already have a shop press, that's the big tool for this job.

I think CC did this too, but not sure. Anyway, you also need a dial indicator, digital caliper, snap-ring pliers, bearing splitter, and large sockets. I think $300-$350 is about right for tools. Then you have the cost of the gears, and I would recommend you buy a master rebuild kit as well. While you're in there you may as well replace all bearings and seals.

There are two chapters in my book that detail this procedure completely. Send me a PM and I'll email you the chapters - just to help out a fellow guru. But if you don't want to tackle this, no big deal.

As bogus said though, be prepared to spend time fitting and re-fitting the shims for proper setup. PM me if you want the chapters.

Steve M.


Thanks Steve, PM Sent
Posted on: 2011/2/23 18:03
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rklessdriver Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Woodbridge, VA
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Nice to see others working on their Corvettes.

I just swapped diff's in my 92 over the holiday weekend. I took the 3.91 out and put the 4.11 in.... Even with me sick as a dog down with the flu removing and re-installing it wasn't too bad. Of course I've done it about 5 times now. I was going to do the flywheel as well but decided that changing one thing at a time would be the smartest thing for me to do given where I am (performance testing wise).

Setting up a gear isn't that big of a deal but Dana's are harder than most because they put the side shims under the carrier brgs.... so whenever you go to set the back lash and pattern the gears you have to press the carrier brgs on and off a few times... It can be a very long and frustrating process. A shop press and brg splitter are mandatory. There are much better (easier) rear diffs to learn how to set up gears on, than a Dana.

For a D44 the gear set is about $350ish and $200ish for a master over haul kit that has all new brgs, shims and seals. Most professional shops charge between $150-$250 labor to set up a gear. IMO with a Dana if you pay under $200 labor, your getting a good deal.
Will
Posted on: 2011/2/23 19:13
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide.
Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials.

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RestoMod57 Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Agreed. One important thing you can do instead of pressing new bearings on and off is to use your old set of bearings as "setup" bearings. Hone out the center bearing rings so they slip on and off the carrier (FSM calls this the case). Do the same for your inner pinion bearing. Those inner pinion shims adjust pinion depth for good gear patterns. Setup bearings are the way to go.
Posted on: 2011/2/23 19:23
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Matatk Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Gee, rear end parts laying all over the floor....looks familiar

Let us know when you get it done and how you like the change. I'd like to go to 3.54s, but don't want to drop the coin. Oh well.

Matthew
Posted on: 2011/2/24 3:58
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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SoCal
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Ok Gents the 3.90 is finally home. Everything but, the pumpkin and batwing is NEW. The builder recommended me not to use synthetic gear oil. He highly recommended Lucas 85W140. Gave me instruction for a break in and to change the oil around 3,000 miles.

Today I ordered the heavy duty toe rods and poly bushings for the batwing.

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/3906.jpg[/IMG]
Posted on: 2011/3/17 22:59
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Matatk Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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So what was changed inside? What did it run if you don't mind me asking.

Can't wait for the results.
Posted on: 2011/3/18 0:59
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-=Jeff=- Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Bartlett, IL
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What gear set brand did you end up using?
Posted on: 2011/3/18 12:18
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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SoCal
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Well, I poured oil in the diff today, I check later on and there is oil moisture at the bottom. I call that an oil leak. I opened the FSM and calls for 30 lbs ft and I find one bolt loose, loose without thread and that tells me the Fg ass-holes at the shop used an airgun to tighten the bolts. Which tells me that the inside and all other outer bolts are over-torqued.

I'm so FFFFF mad, you guys got no idea on how mad I am.
Posted on: 2011/3/19 2:03
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pianoguy Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Apple Valley, MN
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Damn, that blows! Now what, heli-coil or time-sert the bad one?
Posted on: 2011/3/19 3:02
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Matatk Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Ohhhh I'd be bent. You gonna complain and see if they correct it? Is there enough material to helicoil it?
Posted on: 2011/3/19 3:13
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1989 Corvette...RIP
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-=Jeff=- Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Well the threaded holes are pretty crappy and strip easy too,,

That was torquing by hand too.. go to the next size up in bolt
Posted on: 2011/3/19 3:40
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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SoCal
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Thanks for the ideas.

I'm thinking about taking it back there but, takes me an hour to get there.

Would a helicoil work there?

I already thought about the next size bolt. This one screws in it just no longer grip.

I still mad, its 11:31 PM and it is the reason that I'm not even close to be sleepy.
Posted on: 2011/3/19 6:31
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mseven Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Motor City Madhouse
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In that situation, and If possible, I go 1 bolt size up. If I have to remain at the same size I prefer thread certs insted of using heli-coils.
Posted on: 2011/3/19 11:41
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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SoCal
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Quote:

mseven wrote:
In that situation, and If possible, I go 1 bolt size up. If I have to remain at the same size I prefer thread certs insted of using heli-coils.


Txs
Posted on: 2011/3/19 14:51
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jonszr1 Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Lone Pine, CA
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thanx for the heads up on that company . i would though take it back to them and make them make it right .you paid them good money to do the job. they should do t right
Posted on: 2011/3/21 0:20
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BrianCunningham Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Ouch

Make sure those idiots didn't CRACK THE CASE when they overtorqued the bolts.

man that's got to $uck royally
Posted on: 2011/3/21 1:45
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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SoCal
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[color=000066]Let me show you guys the biggest rip off a shop can do to a man.

This is the differential as I started to disassembly it
to install the heli coil. You figure, a shop would clean things up to do everything right.

Look at the batwing bolts full of dirt, GM red RTV and the new black RTV.
[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/3907.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/3908.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/3909.jpg[/IMG]

You figure to clean the surface to have a correct seal. This is why it was already leaking at garage
temperature 66F. Imagine the nightmare at running speeds.
[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39010.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39011.jpg[/IMG]

Dindt clean up inside the pumkin. Pig Farmer shop...
[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39012.jpg[/IMG]

Oh look how I got F'ed...This is supposed to be a "Brand new differential"
[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39013.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39014.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39015.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39017.jpg[/IMG]

Took me few minutes with a small wire brush and carb cleaner.
[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39018.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39019.jpg[/IMG]

Helicoil installed
[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39022.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39023.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39025.jpg[/IMG]

I guess tomorrow, I have to go there for them to take their used parts and give me my money back


Posted on: 2011/3/21 4:03
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pianoguy Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Wow - amazingly bad!
Posted on: 2011/3/21 10:35
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flyboy Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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After looking at the website all I can say is I guess you can't trust anybody.
Posted on: 2011/3/21 12:45
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BillH Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Reno
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Quote:

PLRX wrote:
[I guess tomorrow, I have to go there for them to take their used parts and give me my money back



That's absolutely pathetic. Hope the return works out.

Yea, it's time you you to build your own. That way you get the quality equal to the other things you've done.

Rebuilding the diff just takes patience.
Posted on: 2011/3/21 13:19
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RestoMod57 Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Phoenix, AZ
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That is pathetic!. Messy AND rusty. They should be out of business.
Posted on: 2011/3/21 13:47
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pr0zac Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Pittsburgh
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wow. sorry to hear that.
Posted on: 2011/3/21 17:30
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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SoCal
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Just got back from their shop. He assured me it is a new Dana gears and showed me paper work. He stated the edge is grinded for casing clearance. He gave three pancakes about it to the fact he damaged the thread and did not clean up the old RTV.

The CC dispute is in. I need a letter from a third party stating the work they did is faulty, wrong and disputable.

I see this going higher, when that guy sees the money taken away all hell is going to break loose.:D He should have worked it out with me there today.
Posted on: 2011/3/21 20:18
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pianoguy Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Apple Valley, MN
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Unreal, and what a great attitude they have. Hope they get nothing out of this.

BTW, might be a good time to think about adding a drain plug as long as it's all apart again. Lemonade out of lemons and all that ;-)
Posted on: 2011/3/21 21:20
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�Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey
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Josh Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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A guy did mine and murdered it way worse than that. He used a ring/pinion combo out of a Jeep D44 and used a piece of pipe to take up the extra pinion diameter.
Posted on: 2011/3/21 22:27
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Quote:

pianoguy wrote:
Unreal, and what a great attitude they have. Hope they get nothing out of this.

BTW, might be a good time to think about adding a drain plug as long as it's all apart again. Lemonade out of lemons and all that ;-)


I made a dispute with the bank and already credited the amount charged to the CC. I'll never see the cash. I also made a complaint via the BBB.

I already made a drain hole, Thanks
Posted on: 2011/3/21 22:34
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Quote:

Josh wrote:
A guy did mine and murdered it way worse than that. He used a ring/pinion combo out of a Jeep D44 and used a piece of pipe to take up the extra pinion diameter.


How you found out?
Posted on: 2011/3/21 22:35
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RestoMod57 Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Are you going to rebuild it yourself? If you use the info I sent you and you still have questions, post here so all can see, or email/call.

As said before by another guru, it just takes a little time to rebuild these Dana's. I hope you take down this lyin' POS - no wonder people don't trust repair places anymore. That's why I sold my two locations years ago - I kept getting lumped in with the cheaters. Best of luck.
Posted on: 2011/3/21 22:36
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Matatk Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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I'm really sorry to hear about the bad work. I hope the CC dispute works out for you. Him showing you "paperwork" from a set of gears means what? That he bought them? Or installed them....

I don't know enough about gears to comment on "cutting" them. You might want to contact DTS or Randy's and see if they can help.

Matthew
Posted on: 2011/3/22 2:20
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Matatk Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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I don't know who did the work. This is the shop JHammons used and swears by, not sure if it's close to you:

J & S Gear Co.
18222 Gothard St. Unit A
Huntington Beach, Ca. 92648
(714) 841-4545
Posted on: 2011/3/22 2:24
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1989 Corvette...RIP
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rklessdriver Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Quote:

PLRX wrote:
Just got back from their shop. He assured me it is a new Dana gears and showed me paper work. He stated the edge is grinded for casing clearance.


He is full of crap. I can clearly see the BURNT gear oil on the rig gear from running it too long in a street car.... The wear pattern on the gears is clearly many, and I do mean MANY miles old.

He shouldn't have had to grind on the ring gear of a 3.90 to clear the case in a C4 D44. I have one I just removed from my 92 and it didn't need the corner of the teeth ground off. I mean every thing is different but mine is no where close. My 4.11 isn't even that close to the bottom of the case.

Personally I'd throw that used ring gear thru his front window and when he comes outside, beat the crap out of him with the pinion gear.

I'm sorry to see you get screwed by this clown.

Will
Posted on: 2011/3/22 13:36
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Steve40th Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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I have always used IKERDS diferential service. yes, shipping is brutal to Hawaii, but he is spot on, and well regarded in the Dana 36/44 rearends. He does work for a few companies like Corvettee Central/ Mid America too I believe.
I dont know if you want to send it away, as I am sure Cali and a few other places close by can do it, but Ikerds always did me right and fair.
Posted on: 2011/3/22 20:18
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jonszr1 Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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so what is the name of the business that did this messed up work?. i would also call the the auto repair state guys . they would be all over this like a hot rock
Posted on: 2011/3/23 1:45
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i have a blast playing with my 4 babies 2 zr1s and 2 mustangs 68 coupe with a jon bennit 408 art car fully rollered c4 with a gearvendors over drive .88 mustang built by my kids with a ported lt5 and a bill boudreau blue printed zf 6 spd. with these 4 ...
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Quote:

jonszr1 wrote:
so what is the name of the business that did this messed up work?. i would also call the the auto repair state guys . they would be all over this like a hot rock


Who? How do I contact them?

I got a question

What would be the clearance for the gears and the case? It looks too damn close at the top.



Yes, I knew about the shop in Huntington Beach but, the one in Corona was closer. I wish I would driven there.
Posted on: 2011/3/23 3:07
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RestoMod57 Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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The case (carrier) you have is a Dana 36. The D44 only has two top bolts and was installed on manual cars only. It's possible that this shop inserted a thick ring gear, which can only be used on the Series 2 carriers. Series 2 carriers for D36's came with 2.59 ratio and on coupes. The 3.07 ratio was for convertible automatics.

If your original ratio was 3.07, thick ring gear sets will not fit - so this butthead shaved the gear and possibly the carrier wall.

This info is from the 1995 FSM, but if any other guru has information, please chime in.
Posted on: 2011/3/23 17:06
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RestoMod57 Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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My fault, it looks like the carrier you got back from the shop is a D44, but it looks different in earlier pics.
Posted on: 2011/3/23 17:09
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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SoCal
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Just returned from pick up the differential.

There is a big difference between a pig farmer and a professional.

This time was fixed at GS Gears in Huntington Beach, CA.



[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/29041.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/29042.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/29043.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/29044.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/29045.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/29046.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/29047.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/29048.jpg[/IMG]

The Differential Shop in Corona can only dream to do it like this. I wonder how many customers they screwed like this.
Posted on: 2011/4/11 0:25
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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Quote:

Matatk wrote:
I don't know who did the work. This is the shop JHammons used and swears by, not sure if it's close to you:

J & S Gear Co.
18222 Gothard St. Unit A
Huntington Beach, Ca. 92648
(714) 841-4545



Thanks

[IMG]http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj23/angel-de-guarda/Emoticons/mega-icon-smiley-thumbs-up.jpg[/IMG]
Posted on: 2011/4/11 0:27
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PLRX Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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It's cold up here and I'm waiting to be nice and warm for me to start assembling
parts and torque all to specs.

I started to clean the Batwing and noticed a mark on it. When the Corona Diff Shop
did the crappy hog work the carrier gear was rubbing on the top of the carrier, to my
surprise [B]today[/B] it was also rubbing on the differential cover plate B.K.A. "The Batwing"

I know I wrote this before but, this was a time bomb ready to blow on me. WOW :eek:

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39049.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/plrx/PLRX%20LT4/390/39050.jpg[/IMG]
Posted on: 2011/4/11 1:08
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bogus Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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San Pedro, CA
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GREAT catch, Pete! That was a ticking time bomb... all those metal shavings floating in the oil... yuck-o-rama.
Posted on: 2011/4/11 15:49
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Matatk Re: ~~~3.90 Gears~~~
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I'm glad you were able to find a competent shop that did you right. Any word on getting your money back from the other place?
Posted on: 2011/4/11 23:14
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