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| bogus | Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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I have read the threads regarding Onstar using data.
I am very well aware of the legal issues surrounding the ownership of said data and its trial law implications. However... and it's not a big one, tho. If we had a true sense of faith in our system, we wouldn't necessarily object to this data being used to help others. The fear is that could be used to hose the owner. But it also brings me to another point... we keep trying to make the damned car safer, and do nothing to make the DRIVER safer. Better training and instruction, with real cars on real tracks would go a long way towards making drivers safer. Back to technology for a moment. I would feel better if GM viewed the data on the various computers as property of the cars owner. As such, only some raw elements of said data can be shared with the manufacturers, and, a court order is always required to get at the data in case of a legal issue. The reason for a court order? SELF INCRIMINATION. It makes the various tracking systems witnesses to your crime. Unwanted witnesses. Personally, I would prefer it if the data wasn't usable by anyone. But as technology marches on, we must come to terms with data capture. And be a little more comfortable with the concepts. This is NOT 1984. Far from it. The book showed a dystopian society, where free will has been eliminated and desire has gone away. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 7:01
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Chair-man of the bored
 
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The major concern I believe is the loss of privacy. It has eroded tremendously. In general I don't really care who watches what I'm doing. They'd be so fuckin bored with it they'd move on to a more exciting subject. Here's a pisser. I bought a couple of things off ebay. Went to pay with my paypal acct and it doesn't want to recognize my new address. Apparently the credit card companies haven't updated their international data base so now I become unconfirmed. It wouldn't even let me edit two of my payment options. More things for me to straighten out.
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 10:49
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| Ultraman | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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2015 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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The ability to stay below the radar is getting harder to do....I am sure I would be stunned if I knew how many data bases had me captured that I know nothing about.....some can be used for good, but it opens you up to the dark side.
The other day I was on You Tube looking at a song vid and the ads that play now while the song is playing, until I X them out, were directly related to things I had recently bought from Amazon......I'm like naaaaa, nobody is that good.....but I am not so sure it was coincedence.....thats scary to me.... |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 13:29
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| BillH | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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There's no drivers ed in the schools anymore, they just hand out a pamphlet. Some are trying, BMW & SCCA. I volunteer (instruct) at these schools. http://www.streetsurvival.org/ |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 13:55
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| BillH | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Yep. And Facebook wants access to the email addresses in your computer. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 13:57
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| teebee | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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We still have Drivers Ed here at our school, six weeks of classroom and driving about 5 hours a day in the summer time.
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 14:29
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| BillH | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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That's great,Tom. Not happening here though.
It's good to know they haven't killed it everywhere. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 14:43
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| screamin_conure | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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You hit the nail RIGHT on the head there Andy. I've been thinking that same thing a lot lately. They're making cars now that park themselves, and even have gadgets onboard that can even compensate for a driver who falls asleep! While all this is great, the more of these safety gadgets they put into cars, the more inclined people will be to not hone their defensive driving skills or bother to pay attention while they're driving. I really get a kick out of the one commercial for a well known, high end German luxury car that flashes between a number of snooty, intellectual types who go on and on about how their car saved their life during a moment of inantentive driving. Give me a break!! |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 16:03
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| BillH | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Ya know, they're testing a "self driving" car here. Our Gov. even rode in it last month. The Obama-like folks are ticlked to death. No human control over cars, just governmant mandated speed, spacing, mpg,etc. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 16:36
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| Vetron87 | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Like TB's school system we still teach drivers ed during the summer months. I taught drivers ed for ten years back in the day. I should write a fricking book! times it was safer in the jungles of southeast asia than teaching drivers ed. It s funny to follow a drivers ed car now a days with kids texting in the back seat.
I was not aware that in California that a three year old car needs to be smog certified to get a registration. Sooo all these Mitsu Evos I saw running around in Cal. are smog legal! Ain't no way when the exhaust coming out of these cars will make your eyes burn by the over rich fuel mix. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 17:24
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| BillH | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Plug in the computer, download stock settup, leave the inspection station, upload nasty setup. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 18:45
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| rklessdriver | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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My fear is that people are using technology more and more to avoid personal responsibility and taking responsibility for the littlest things is important so that we don't become the mindless drones that 1984 spoke of.
Simple stuff - If Onstar can find the theater for you then your not on the hook to look up the address and find directions to. Leads to biger stuff - We all know there is more than 1 theater in most towns.... If Onstar can find the theater for you then Onstar can decide WHICH theater you get directions to. Leads to even bigger stuff - Since Onstar can decide which theater you get directions to it can be corrupted by the special interest that represents a certain group of theater owners (hell they have already admitted it has).... Little stuff leads to bigger stuff and I know some sheep out there are gonna say whats the big deal about a theater.... Rome wasn't built in a day and it wasn't destroyed in a day either. Little stuff has layed the ground work for bigger stuff over a peroid of a few lifetimes in the USA. There are people in the Govt that would love to have control over what theater you see movies at, even what kind of soda you drink or what kind of butter you have on your popcorn.... They have been at it for lifetimes, just gradually wearing away at our personal freedom/liberty. When one dies or gets knocked out of office there are 10 waiting to take their place. What happens when the Govt gets involved with this info? Stuff like Toll Roads get inserted in directions to generate more revenue for the state. You start getting sent down roads that the state has set up as speed traps. Make no doubt that eventually we will be at the point where your car just spits out a ticket from a slot in the dash where the CD player use to reside.... As technology as evloved over time people have been gradually been relieved of the ability to make descisions about it's proper use for themselves. There is a Govt agency for Energy, Food, Transportation, ect..... Every bit of it was put in place under the guise of "safety". They took the responsibilty for "safety" away from individuals and placed it on the Govt. I think we are a few lifetimes away from being 1984 for real but in some ways we are already there. The ground work is already here. The people who would 100% implement 1984 just don't have enough power in the way the current generation of Amercians think.... but people are becomming more and more passive to "precieved authority" intruding into their lives and I don't think it'll be too much longer before they make their play to have total control. It's all about preception. That's why politicans have come to changing the definition of what "it" means. The Stimulus got a bad name once it was passed and people found out about all the fraud... now the new one is called a "jobs bill". You can't call liberal Dems "Socialist" because they haven't sent disenters off to a prision in Siberia yet.... Change the name and sell it again. Once they twist the preception of what "freedon and liberty" is a little more, people won't know what it was. Honestly we really don't. We can't even comprehend what freedom and liberty was in 1776..... My legs are tired. I need a ladder..... This soap box is way too tall. Will |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 18:49
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| Matatk | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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To Andy's original post - I agree there needs to be more driver's education. And there is. Our state has a graduated license program that takes like 2 years to complete with all the rules/regulations/driving hours/supervision, etc. That's light years ahead of what I did for my license and waaaay more ahead of driver's ed in say the 50s or 60s. So that's a step in the right direction.
As far as the 1984 stuff...yesterday I saw a tv commercial for a movie about J Edgar Hoover. If you don't know who he was, google him. He was a bad MFer. In a good and bad way...lol. You think your privacy is invaded now? You'd be amazed what that guy did 30-80 years ago! Onstar is nothing...lol. I am not a fan of being tracked...but I like technology. Kind of goes hand in hand. You can go unabomber off the grid if you want...  Matthew |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 19:07
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| Matatk | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Not exactly award winning cinema, but entertaining: NWS! |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 19:10
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| SpectatorRacing | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Elite Guru
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Some of you guys are missing a critical point. The common misconception is that it's all the Government, or "the corporations" or (whatever ominous entity of the day) that is doing this. That "they" are pushing more and more of this on us. While some of these things are related, the vast majority of these features, specifically in the area that is dearest to us, car stuff, are dictated by US.
People WANT to have everything done for them. They WANT to be told what movie to see and what theater to see it and what to eat and how to get there. They have very little interest in doing any work or making any decisions for themselves. Most people can't find a new place these days without a Nav system. Even google maps is too much of an inconvenience now. The OEM's are trying to do one thing: make money. They (we /I) develop systems that will sell cars so we/I get a paycheck. If nobody bought OnStar it would have gone away a long time ago. People like it. So suddenly they want this fancy gadget in their car that tells them what to do, but they don't want there to be any negatives? It's not free for GM to have hundreds of OnStar operators on call 24/7. They pay for it by getting funding from advertisers, etc. OnStar is one of a hundred examples of this. Ever heard the phrase "you made your bed?" Now we don't want to lie in it, and so it must be some kind of government conspiracy. It can't be *gasp* OUR fault. Can it? |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 21:37
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| jonszr1 | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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can one buy a gm car without onstar installed . or get it taken out of the car if they dont want it ?
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 22:13
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| Ultraman | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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It comes on all new cars now and it is your choice to activate it or not.......but it is still part of the wiring.
In a new car the 1st six months or 1 year depending on the program is free. After that you have to pay to continue the service. I think it's 20 bucks a month for the basic protection service. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/23 22:42
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| BillH | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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No Jon, the critical point is- You can't turn it off easily. GM's shoving it down everone's throat. Even if you buy used, GM wants to sell your data. And there's a lot of people who don't want it. But Gm says screw you. And there's many stories of people out there, broken down, hitting the button and getting zero response from On Star. BUT the bottom line is GM says - You have no say in this. If you don't activate, we're going to send you voice messages while you're driving. If you don't activate, we are going to still track you and sell your peraonnal data. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/24 0:12
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Chair-man of the bored
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Tracking cookies, tv usage statistic compilation, purchase record keeping, credit card monitoring, sunpass usage information, bank records, income records, hard drive memory and those are just some off the top of my head. Don't forget, public records. Get a ticket and watch your mail volume increase. Ticket Clinic and a host of others are ready to offer their services. Whole lotta watchin going on.
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Posted on: 2011/9/24 0:20
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| bogus | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I was rather tired when I wrote my initial post... I also put it in the wrong place.
I will come back tomorrow and read the thread... it's been a hectic week. We were in Sacramento Sun-Wed for a conference, and in LA for day trips yesterday and today for the AARP annual conference. Good fun, I will say that. However, one point I wanted to make and couldn't formulate last night: We as a society have advanced, technologically, so damned fast, that laws and the human condition hasn't been able to keep up. This has worked to the advantage to some and the disadvantage to others, fair enough. But what it hasn't done is prepare us for that nasty bugaboo called "the law of unintended consequences". We create the internet, no one thinks it will ever store and share the type of info it does. So we don't prepare ourselves, and by the time we are, it's reactionary, not preparatory. In other words, the cats out of the bag. The human condition has done a really good job of inventing, but a poor job in after the implimentation clean up. They invent the VCR, only to piss off TV networks... invent the cassette recorder, only to piss off radio stations... invent the iPod, only to piss off the entire music industry. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/24 6:28
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| Ultraman | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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As has been mentioned, a lot of the info gathered on a multitude of systems is to be used by marketing to fine tune sales to individuals. That has been going on for decades in one form or another and the only way to avoid it these days is to not use the internet to buy things or not use subscription sevices such as On Star.
To those who consent no injustice is done.....That used to be in my signature line way back when and I have always believed it. The one thing we all can do is complain to those services about how information is being handled and if need be vote with your feet, meaning shut off the service or buy through other channels. It's all about money and sales info anyway so less money is not what they are looking for. With On Star you have to weigh whether safety and peace of mind is worth the trade off. You also have to weigh the convieniance and maybe savings on items bought over the internet when you know that sales info is going to be used by marketing. At this time, for my girls at least, living and traveling whether it's in LA or on the road to Denver, I sleep better knowing they have some kind of edge if the car quits or some asshole starts to harrass them. Cell phones are good but out here can be limited and GPS is not on all systems either. Just some thoughts I had....... |
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Posted on: 2011/9/24 12:48
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Bitchin, now I can watch myself dragrace. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/24 20:11
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| Steve40th | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Well, before my youngest starts to drive, legally, she will be taught car control by me via Go_kart racing. Then during permit time, she will go to a driving school of some sort.
Then, when she is driving, I will have data to follow her every move and the ecm tuned ( de-tuned) to lower rpms and/or mph. I am not a big government kind of guy. Cars are where I get my freedom. It makes me feel free when I drive. But knowing big brother is watching takes that away. But, I do have friends living off the grid... Onstar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hUYzR5M-FU |
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Posted on: 2011/9/25 1:20
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Chair-man of the bored
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When I was a teen you had to learn from a family member or pay a driving school. I was driving since I started school but I still went to drivers school (now called drivers ed) and I paid for it myself. The private sector is more than capable of providing this service for a nominal fee. Or the state could just make it mandatory. No certificate no license. By the way, I'm an excellent driver.
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Posted on: 2011/9/25 1:31
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| pianoguy | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Posted on: 2011/9/26 19:07
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| Ultraman | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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I am going to start making me a tinfoil hat real soon.....
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Posted on: 2011/9/27 0:58
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| JrRifleCoach | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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We MUST??? Information is power and giving someone info in the HOPE that it may not be used against me is not the CHANGE I'm willing to accept. And you knew I would say that... |
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Posted on: 2011/9/27 6:55
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| JrRifleCoach | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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In the face of a full-on revolt from users and pressure from Drudge Report and other media outlets, General Motors' OnStar service just announced it was reversing plans to keep tracking vehicles of its 6 million subscribers if they cancel the service. Now once it's off, it's off.
OnStar said it wanted to keep the connection alive to offer new services and alert vehicle owners in case of emergency or recalls but also said it reserved the right to share or sell anonymous data about the vehicles it tracked to outsiders, including government agencies and marketers. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/27 23:13
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Senior Guru
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and I was pi$$ed when my OnStar went off when I was pulling out of a parking spot..
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Posted on: 2011/9/27 23:15
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| flyboy | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Big brother is telling GM how to build the new C7 and GM is loving it. 500lbs and $2500 worth of mandated features.
54.5 mpg by 2025. Not a lot of room to maneuver. Squeezes out any competition from a little guy. Conformity, "we had no choice". No wonder all cars look the same. Good read here. http://spectator.org/archives/2011/09 ... ajors-love-mandates/print |
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Posted on: 2011/9/28 1:16
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Oh I'd love to hear your guys' opinions on the "Snapshot" *ahem* tracking *ahem* program from Progressive Insurance.
You will pay MORE money to be insured by them without the tracking device. They call it a discount, same difference. Companies have been purchasing people's privacy for years now, and people sell it cheap! That decreases the value of your privacy whether you like it or not. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/28 22:51
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| Ultraman | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Hey, bitching and moaning does help...... I have not heard of the Snapshot thing, what's up with it? |
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Posted on: 2011/9/28 23:32
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| JrRifleCoach | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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http://blog.tmcnet.com/on-rads-radar/ ... ssive-mobile-tracker.html
The new obd3 will be equipped with a sat link. As well as all new cars produced from June 2011 have black boxes. CC the tracker is NOT LEGAL in CA . |
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Posted on: 2011/9/28 23:56
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As democracy is perfected, the POTUS represents more closely the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a fool and narcissistic moron. |
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| bogus | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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What about rental car companies that were issuing "fines" for speeding in their cars to clients?
It's the same thing... If we are not careful, we will end up like the movie Minority Report or Demolition Man... All these rules to protect ourselves from ourselves. I blame lawyers. If it wasn't for lawsuits, we wouldn't feel the need to constantly cover our collective asses. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/29 1:35
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| BillH | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Boy you got that right. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/29 2:03
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| JrRifleCoach | Re: Onstar... big brother... and other random thoughts | ||
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He's ALIVE!!!! He's alive! |
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Posted on: 2011/9/30 3:32
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