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| pianoguy | Bleeding brakes | ||
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I've been boning up on this recently, as I haven't done it myself in decades, and am going to be doing a little brake work when my car comes out of storage. One article I read mentioned that before starting, you should first depress the brake pedal as far as it normally goes, and to then put a block of wood under the pedal so that it doesn't travel further during the bleeding process. It mentioned that you could damage the o-rings in the MC if there's any corrosion in there beyond where the normal operation occurs. Anybody ever do this? Any other tips?
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Posted on: 2008/1/8 22:50
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| cuisinartvette | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Best thing I ever did was call Summit racing and buy their speedbleeders.
Once put in (put a little bit of jointstick on the threads)crack them open and gravity bleed for a few minutes THen go in order....Close them up first, then-Open one bleeder up, walk to your car, pump away. Go back, tighen the bleeder and hit the next one. Take you about 10 min to do the whole car with no help |
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Posted on: 2008/1/8 22:57
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| pianoguy | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Thanks! Speed-bleeders are part of the plan - they'll be going in before I start. I want to flush 'em good - for all I know, the brake fluid could be vintage 1996.
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Posted on: 2008/1/8 23:03
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| BrianCunningham | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Definitely want to change the fluid, not just bleed.
This will get rid of all the water in the system. Don't forget some ABS units have their own bleeder. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/8 23:22
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| Klaus | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Guru
 
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I bought one of these pressure bleeders, but have not used it yet. I think it will work well to flush the system of old fluid.
http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?pf_id=46104&dept_id=120 |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 0:18
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| CA_Irregular | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Guru Newb
 
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Why add possible failure points in your brake system? Speed bleeders are an attractive but entirely unnecessary product -- very much a created need.
Also, I appreciate the notion of keeping your brake pedal within normal range of motion but you should be sure that you don't short change yourself. Push the pedal as far as you will when you are coming into that hairpin turn after reaching 105 on the straight. If you have corrosion in that part of the travel, you have problems anyway. Just my opinion. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 0:30
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| pappyfreebird | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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yeup i agree with ca irr. i just bled n 84 ...n put em to the floor a few times on each wheel... n new master n shes sweet.. (well the one time a drove it)56 miles though
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 1:01
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| MK 82 | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Senior Guru
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Pressure bleeders are the ticket!!
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 1:04
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| Qack | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Senior Guru
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Replacing the brake fluid is on my to-do list as well. I'd bet that the brake fluid in my '94 is original.
Here's an interesting link for a make-it-yourself pressure bleeder: http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm Since I already have a spare garden sprayer (never used!), this should cost next to nothing? |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 1:30
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| bogus | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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VtVette has a tech artical that I am working on... It is about bleeding brakes, I should have it done tonite!
As for the block of wood... if you are bleeding, and NOT compressing the system entirely, it will take longer and increase the chances of air getting caught. At least that's my theory on it. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 1:39
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| CasetheCorvetteman | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Thats a fact Bogus.
Quote: Replacing the brake fluid is on my to-do list as well. I'd bet that the brake fluid in my '94 is original. Ok Qack, here is what i want you to do mate, get your garden sprayer out, get it all ready to go, leave it DRY inside, and pump it up a fair bit. Now pull the trigger to bleed off some pressure and pull the release valve. Then open it up and see how much moisture is inside it. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 1:57
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Quote:
Why add possible failure points in your brake system? What makes you say that? A speedbleeder, when closed, is just as closed as the oem type bleeders. The check ball doesn't hold in pressure or anything. The only way I could see a speedbleeder failing is if the check ball some how corroded shut, but that won't have any effect on the system, it would just mean you have to replace the bleeder before flushing your brakes. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 2:01
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| pianoguy | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Guru Emeritus
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Thanks for the responses, everyone - bogus, your article timing is perfect
 I saw an "auto bleed" procedure in the FSM that opens the ABS valves, but I doubt if the meager OBDII code reader/resetter I have is sophisticated enough to engage it. Interesting point about moisture in the pressurized air, too - wonder how shops deal with this? |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 2:02
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| bogus | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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a quality shop will use a moisture trap on the compressor.
I have seen air compressors with water literally swimming in the bottom of the tanks. This is bad... very bad... |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 2:08
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| pianoguy | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Yeah, my compressor has a little valve at the bottom that you're supposed to open to remove moisture after evacuating the compressed air.
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 2:09
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| Qack | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Quote:
Most of the pressure bleeders in my price range use a garden sprayer type of unit to produce pressure, so they would suffer from the same problem. I just need to make sure I do it during the winter on a day when the relative humidity in my garage is about 4%! |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 2:11
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| CasetheCorvetteman | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Id say they would be fitted with a water trap too.
Regardless of what they use, you either want to do the job right first go, or you want to take every short cut under the sun to save 20 minutes, potentially causing permanent damage which will cost a fair amount of money to correct. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 2:29
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| Qack | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Id say they would be fitted with a water trap too. Case, I can't argue with any of what you've said, mate. Water is the bane of brake systems. I'm driven to do all maintenance and repairs on my car for two reasons. First, I enjoy the hell out of working on my cars. Well, most of the time! :toothy5: Second, I've had "professional" mechanics -- from the "best" shops do really lousy work, or unnecessary work, or both. For something as important as flushing the brake system, I'd rather do it myself. That way, I know it'll be done right. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 2:52
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| Livin_the_dream | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Senior Guru
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SPEEDBLEEDERS
perfect for the job especially if you are by yourself. I flushed my whole system in less than an hour and did not have any worries about if I opened the bleeder or if the pedal was released too soon. Also like Centralcoaster said once tightened no chance of mechanical failure seals like a regular bleeder. I also started my car and let the booster help aid in bleeding my brakes |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 3:00
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| CasetheCorvetteman | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Quote:
Case, No question about it mate, and i agree. But for what i reckon its worth, i simply WILL NOT use any sub-standard tool that may cause damage to my vehicle, be it long term or short term, so for that reason, id either use the speed bleeders as others have sugested you use, or do the flushing the old way. Being that your vehicle is a 94, and the thread starter has a 96, so you should read in the Factory service manual and follow the procedures dictated by the said manual (section 5 book 1 for your 94) in order to be sure the ABS module is correctly flushed and bled. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 4:23
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Nice thing about the pressure bleeder is it can't possibly put air into the system. The phoenix tool is even better, on paper at least, since it forces the bubbles up.
Speedbleeders can still let air in when you lift the pedal, if the threads aren't sealed. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 6:36
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| CasetheCorvetteman | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Quote:
Speedbleeders can still let air in when you lift the pedal, if the threads aren't sealed. Yep, although this usually is avoided with the old fashion open and close type method |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 7:21
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| runner140 | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Master Guru
 
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Can't add much to what has been already said. Purchased "SpeedBleeders" for over two years ago. They make bleeding a 10 minute job.
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 12:46
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| Qack | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Quote:
Being that your vehicle is a 94, and the thread starter has a 96, so you should read in the Factory service manual and follow the procedures dictated by the said manual (section 5 book 1 for your 94) in order to be sure the ABS module is correctly flushed and bled. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 13:36
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| SpectatorRacing | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Why is bleeding the brakes such a big deal that people need fancy tools? I use an 11 mm wrench and a piece of clear hose. Yes, I need another person, but is that really that tough to find? Grab a buddy or your wife or your kid. Takes 10-15 minutes.
I probably bleed my brakes more than anyone, with only the above equipment. One full fluid replacement in the spring, and a good bleed about once a month. For a standard bleed to get fresh fluid into the calipers you simply need to go around and crack each one open, pump some fluid out, and move on. I usually do about five 3/4 pedal travel pumps on each corner. Have the other person apply pressure to the pedal, crack the nipple until you see fluid come out, then tighten it back up before the pedal hits the floor. The reason you don't want the pedal to bottom out is because that's when the nipple can suck air back into the caliper. After a few pumps you know how much fluid will be expelled when the pedal is near the end of travel and that's when you cut it off. If you're doing a complete system flush you don't need to worry about air until the end of the job. Open all the nipples and pump out some fluid, refill the resivoir after each pump. Let the system sit for a day so the air bubbles rise to the surface, and do the procedure above for bleeding air out. If you really must use speed bleeders, go ahead. I suppose they could save you time, and if a little air gets into the system you're fine on the street. But I sure as hell don't trust them on the track with my life on the line... |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 19:37
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| bogus | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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11mm wrench? what calipers are you using? Corvette bleeders are 10mm.
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 20:30
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Quote:
Quote: There is no open/close method with speedbleeders, it would defeat the entire purpose. Speedbleeders = leave open during bleeding, make sure threads are sealed. OEM bleeders = open/closed, do not use thread sealer. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 20:58
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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$20 is worth it to me to not have to wait on someone else, take longer, and worry about them closing the bleeder in time.
Some good thread sealer is all you need to keep them from drawing air in. I also let up on the pedal slowly. The ONLY downside I see with speedbleeders, other than paying $20, is the potential of getting thread sealer on the bleeder port and causing a small leak. I've never had this problem since using teflon thread. Had it happen with the factory sealant, and it made an obvious, but small leak. Quote: Why is bleeding the brakes such a big deal that people need fancy tools? I use an 11 mm wrench and a piece of clear hose. Yes, I need another person, but is that really that tough to find? Grab a buddy or your wife or your kid. Takes 10-15 minutes.If you really must use speed bleeders, go ahead. I suppose they could save you time, and if a little air gets into the system you're fine on the street. But I sure as hell don't trust them on the track with my life on the line... |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 21:05
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| teebee | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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2014 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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What about using a "Mity Vac" Vacuum pump? I had read somewhere that this makes it pretty easy. Hook up the hose to the end of the bleeder, open the bleeder and pump the fluid into the bottle close the bleeder, move to the next caliper, repeat, unitl all four are done. Am I missing something here?
This is one of the little jobs that I am planning for this winter, I bought a Mity Vac and Ford Blue brake fluid. Bogus the article couldn't come at a better time. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 21:06
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| SpectatorRacing | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
11mm wrench? what calipers are you using? Corvette bleeders are 10mm. Aftermarket. Brembo F40. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 21:44
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Quote:
What about using a "Mity Vac" Vacuum pump? I had read somewhere that this makes it pretty easy. Hook up the hose to the end of the bleeder, open the bleeder and pump the fluid into the bottle close the bleeder, move to the next caliper, repeat, unitl all four are done. Am I missing something here? Should work fine, again, assuming the bleeder threads are sealed. I've used my mighty vac to bleed the clutch system. It sucks working against gravity(buoyancy) though, the bubbles are trying to float up while you're sucking the fluid down. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/10 0:15
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| CasetheCorvetteman | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Quote:
There is no open/close method with speedbleeders, it would defeat the entire purpose. No kidding eh? Im quite well aware of how they work. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/10 6:32
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| BillH | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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Quote:
What about using a "Mity Vac" Vacuum pump? I had read somewhere that this makes it pretty easy. Hook up the hose to the end of the bleeder, open the bleeder and pump the fluid into the bottle close the bleeder, move to the next caliper, repeat, unitl all four are done. Am I missing something here? The one thing I don't like about the Mity Vac is that the adapters for the bleeders tend to leak air at times making you think that the bubbles are coming from the caliper. This can happen with straight hose too. I also get tired of pumping the lever when doing a complete fluid change. I like the speedbleeders. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/10 15:54
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| teebee | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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2014 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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Quote:
Quote: Thanks to CC and BillH for your comments, it makes things a bit clearer. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/10 17:43
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| jhammons01 | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Quote:
Why is bleeding the brakes such a big deal that people need fancy tools? I use an 11 mm wrench and a piece of clear hose. Yes, I need another person, but is that really that tough to find? Grab a buddy or your wife or your kid. Takes 10-15 minutes. Dude, I couldn't agree with you more. I am at a loss with all these recommendations for gadgets to help you do a 20 minute job. 14 year old in the driver seat. Make sure they understand that they cannot let off the brake pedal until you give the "release" command. Take a wrench and go to the furthest wheel from the MC. Stick a piece of vacuum hose over the valve and run the other end into a coke bottle. Open the bleeder valve and tell the kid to "push"......all the way down. Then before his foot reaches the floor board you close the bleeder. then tell him to release. Now repeat this procedure until the fluid coming into the coke bottle is nice and clear without any bubbles. Then move to the next closest wheel. The pedal won't get firm until you have finished the very last wheel. If I have to warn you not to let the fill cup run dry then maybe you shouldn't be working on brakes by yourself. 20 minutes.....tops and the only special thing needed is a Coke bottle and a piece of tubing. The uncomfortable thing will be listening to your wife or son repeating "are we finished yet?" |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 17:36
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| jhammons01 | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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I also would like to point out.
If you are worried about your pedal going all the way to the floor and "Damaging" something..........maybe that Master Cylinder is not the thing you want your life Dependant upon....I'm just sayin'.... Maybe now would be a good time to swap out such a critical piece of equipment rather than babying it. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 17:43
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| Lichen | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Speedbleeders here. I'm not letting any 14 year old in my car.
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 19:56
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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Quote:
Ok, now hit the race track every month, flush out your brake fluid every other month, and do it on a car with 6 or 8 bleeder ports. Still convinced spending an extra minute and $20-$30 once, to put speedbleeders in during a bleed, isn't worth it? Cheaper than a 14 yr old. :thumbright: It's worth it to me. I won't kill you for disagreeing with me though. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 21:30
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| jhammons01 | RE:Bleeding brakes | ||
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[quote="CentralCoaster"]Quote:
that is a little extreme for us daily drivers. OK for all out there that drives their car around town and to and from work...... I could see getting a device if I had to bleed brakes on that frequency. But for most of us that will have to do this once every two years or so...... oh and believe me 14 year olds are perfectly capable of pushing a brake pedal. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 21:53
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