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| DaleD | PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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I've read all the wonderful stuff about PCMforless. So, I didn't hesitate when I wanted a chip. I wanted VATS delete, fan turn on at 215* and whatever little bit of performance they could wring out of my car.
As my luck would have it, I got 2 out of 3, but the 3rd item, they broke it. The performance is worse! My car is bone stock L98 with a cat back and cut airbox. If you recall, I had an issue with stumble on acceleration. I did the seafoam thing, and it seemed better. It was kind of random, and hard to figure out. So, at the end of this driving season, I had enough, I took the car to a shop I use and told them to fix it. The fix was to pull the chip. Works fine now. Damn. I called PCMforless but it turns out Alvin is unavailable. I've sent an email. We'll see what they do. Just kind of grinds my ass that I'm going to have a shop cost because their product is faulty. I should have pulled the darn thing myself, but I really thought it was something else, like injectors. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/24 19:44
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| pianoguy | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Arghhh, that blows
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Posted on: 2009/11/24 20:14
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1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey |
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| Aboatguy | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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I'm sorry to hear/read your misfortune; mistakes happen, I'm sure you're not the only one to be victim of a faulty tune. You are lucky that it did not end up worse (ie melted piston/s)
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Posted on: 2009/11/24 23:41
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| RoadAgent | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Did you send Alvin a data log? I'm sure he will work with you! He is a stand up guy to work with.
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 1:01
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| DaleD | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Sent an email, since he's out. I have no way to collect a data log, so we'll see what they want to do. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 2:04
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| anesthes | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Master Guru
 
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Mail order tunes are like mail order brides..
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 3:40
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'79 Z28. 412 CID, NP 833 transmission, 3.73 10.5" rear end. |
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| tpi421vett | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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I would talk to Mick (mseven). The guy is very sharp and knows his stuff. He is also very reasonable. I am pretty sure he is on this forum. He is also on the "other" forum.
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 5:11
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AFR Dealer, can sell at prices too low to advertise. 801-953-6391 08 C6 LS3,3LT,Z51,A6,NPP 91 vette,450ci, AFR 220, miniram,FAST, Crane 252/260 solid roller, 200 shot nos, ZF6, 4 link, 9", DA corrected to 1300 ft 9.65@145.xx 450ci now with AFR 235... |
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| Matatk | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Sorry to hear that, Dale. Hopefully you can get it resolved. I've never worked with Alvin but have heard good feedback usually.
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 5:54
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Jeffvette | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Perfect because they are not Americanized? |
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 9:19
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| biggrizzly | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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I agree totally. I have not worked with Alvin, but Bryan Herter at the Pennsylvania side of PCMfor Less does the LT1 cars and he is always swamped with email and work. He has always got back to me within a couple days on email and we have worked out any problems through data scans and re-flashing. so I can only assume Alvin has similar work ethic. I have sent Bryan lots of scans and we have both scratched our heads on some issues that were not even due to the tune. I think a mistake can be made by ANY tuner. I think its part of the risk when you start to modify the factory tune. Hopefully you will get this straightened out shortly before having to go to another tuner and pay again. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 11:12
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| mseven | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Sent an email, since he's out. I have no way to collect a data log, so we'll see what they want to do. I see no reason why Alvin could not get your tune functioning properly. If the only changes being made are disabling VATS, and changing the enable/disable fan temps. in the tune, the way the car performs will not be effected. Regarding performance/efficiency through fueling and timing changes, no one is capable of tuning a computer controlled vehicle properly without the input of real time data. This information would be gathered from using software such as TTS data master, Diacom, tuner pro etc. All tuners will start by sending a conservative "base tune" from other similar combinations they have done which is based on the information that you provided for your particular combination. From there you will have to provide data logs that capture/record a majority of rpm v.s.load range events while the car is being driven so that adjustments can be made in the tune. Additionally it will be your responsibility to insure that everything mechanically is functioning properly. Exhaust leaks, faulty fuel pumps, regulators, erratic alternator voltage, etc. all play a role in the way the tune will perform and can potentially skew various values. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 12:14
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| DaleD | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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As far as I can tell my car has no issues. It's not absolute, but my shop agrees. Given the car has no issues, and is stock, I thought a chip for it would be a simple item. That's why I was shocked to find the chip was causing my recent problem. I heard back from Alvin by email. He simply asked where the base timing was set. I find that less than inspiring. It's set at 6* BTDC. But even if the base timing was off, I'd be surprised if it would mimic a fuel starvation problem. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 14:03
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| jhammons01 | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Too many cooks.....
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 15:21
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| DaleD | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Ok, now I'm getting irritated. There is no possiblity of a return. Alvin wants:
Base timing checked - done. Fuel pressure checked - To be done. Datalog - I don't even know how to do it. I expected plug and play for a stock car, now I have yet another source of irritation. This shit is no fun when even the simplest of items turns into a project with lots of extra costs. BTW, Alvin seems less than concerned. I don't know about PCMforless, but I'm pretty sure Alvin would prefer I just go away. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 15:24
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| jhammons01 | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Look Dale, understand the Datalog issue is important. If they cannot get the feedback from it, how can they help any further? This in input they need and you don't have the tools or the ability to get that info back to the factory.
Two schools of thought here. 1) should they have fully disclosed this prior to the sale?? Should they "qualify" you prior to selling you something you wanted? What if they asked you if you fully understood the Datalog issue and you replied "no"......then they told you that they won't sell you a chip due to you not being qualified as a competent tuner..........That would have sent you through the roof.... 2) As a "Sales Engineer" for highly technical products, I sell things all the time that could most likely go this way as the end user is not competent enough to fully understand the product they "think" they wanted. I mean at that point.....what do I do?? Drive over there and educate some PhD on what a Photon is and how to excite and then count a single Photon??? That info should have been absorbed during the education process of the the individual earning the PhD. I'm not being a butthole by any means, but at some point a vendor has to rely on the end user having a minimum amount of understanding of the product they are buying. They ask you for a Datalog and you state that you don't have the tools to provide this......What can they do from that point forward? Drive/fly over to your place and obtain the Datalog themselves? Sorry Dale, hate me if you will, I'm just presenting another side of this issue for you to consume. I don't know anything about switching chips or Datalogs or tuning or PCMforless or Alvin or mseven......I'm just stating what I deal with almost on a daily basis with tech products and Engineers (some even at NASA) that buy things they don't fully understand. When they can't figure it out by clicking shit on the software.....they then get frustrated with me for "giving" them what they said they wanted and want me to issue an RMA. Our product is performing just as advertised yet we are supposed to take it back and shelf it when we did nothing wrong.....we only provided what a legally binding Purchase Order told us to do. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 16:45
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| jhammons01 | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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I also wanted to add, beware of the shop you are using. They could use this issue to milk you for work not needed. They could be blaming all sorts of stuff on the Chip and no one is there to defend the chip...therefor the Shop gets to charge for all sorts of goodies.
That is what I meant by "too many Cooks" |
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 16:49
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| DaleD | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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You're entitled to your opinion even if you're wrong. Your perspective is clear, a vendor rep. I find it interesting that you have a strong stance, without being aware of the details of the transaction. There is a process where information is exchanged both ways. A qualification of sorts. For a stock car, as mine is, the product is fully represented as plug and play. Even after this, Alvin said "We sell about 3-400 corvette chips a year and very rarely have any issues especially on a stock or near stock car but we can always try something different." Alvin seems to be a little more responsive now. I did drop the corvette-guru on him, so maybe that influenced him, I don't know. Maybe Alvin was just busy and I misread his earlier short replies. But I digress. That's the beauty of the internet, we all have our own perspectives, and we needn't allow facts to cloud our vision. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 16:59
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| DaleD | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Good advice. I've been using this shop for a year and a half. I trust them as much as any shop I've ever used. When they work on the car, it's not uncommon for me to watch over their shoulder. Different agendas and goals are something to be concerned about. I think I'm ok on that front, but I've been wrong before. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 17:02
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| bogus | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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Dale - I have the stuff to log it. Say the word it's in the mail.
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 23:09
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| DaleD | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Awesome. What's it take, cables and software? Should I download something to my laptop. I'm not totally convinced it's not my car. When we were messing around with it today, it was chugging, without the chip. We unplugged the MAF and it smoothed out. Fuel pressure is good, 43psi and 38psi under load. Timing is correct. I bought a MAF with a lifetime warranty. I went to Advance and swapped them for a new one. We'll put it in on Monday and see what happens. If the new MAF doesn't do it, I'll want to do a data log and I'll take you up on that offer Andy. On the bright side, the guy at the shop said mine is the best running TPI he's ever driven, counting Vettes and Camaros, so I'm doing something right. Thanks a bunch, have a Happy Thanksgiving! |
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Posted on: 2009/11/25 23:23
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| bogus | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Check the harness to the MAF. If it's chopped up, all sorts of wierd stuff will happen.
The unit I have is EASE diagnostic. It needs a laptop. It has cables and software. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/26 2:06
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Matatk | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Dale, did you pull the codes to see if any MAF codes pop? Do what Andy said and check the harness, too.
I made my own cable with some instructions on the internet, cost about $8. Not as pretty as the premade $65 ones, but does the job. There is free software on the internet, too. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/11/26 3:15
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| NEVRL8T | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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BTW, you are not the first to have problems with PCMForless and Alvin. There have been problems from bad tunes to poor shipping practices.
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Posted on: 2009/11/26 3:26
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| mseven | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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TheAngelOfDeath wrote: BTW, you are not the first to have problems with PCMForless and Alvin. There have been problems from bad tunes to poor shipping practices. If in fact, some have had problems with them I can assure you they are no where near the worst offender in the tuning world. As to the other comments above, regarding sales ethics, and undisclosed facts etc. I have no vested interest in their company as I do all my own tuning. It was hard for me to believe they would not discuss various aspects of getting a "tune". A quick look at their site shows that they provide info on data logging, poor performance etc. in their "general info" section on the site. http://www.pcmforless.com/index.php?o ... sk=cat&catid=20&Itemid=78 This is not rocket science and working with the software only requires basic computer skills and the ability to attach the recorded file to an email. The actual tuning itself requires more savy... Dale should be fine once he can send some files/data out. Quote: What's it take, cables and software? Should I download something to my laptop. I commend Andy on his generous offer and trying to help you out but first you will need to check out a couple of things. Since I do not own the "EASE" system, is it compatible for your year. More importantly, send Alvin an email an make sure he has/uses that software so that he can actually read the info. If Alvin cannot read or work with the EASE system, you can download Data master for free and get 20 free trial files. Data master here: http://www.ttspowersystems.com/DataMaster_downloads.html cables here (scroll down to aldl cables): http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=31 Quote: I'm not totally convinced it's not my car. When we were messing around with it today, it was chugging, without the chip This is what I was referring to in my earlier post, things need to right with the car which no tuning can help. Regarding F.P and timing, your tune is built around that premise/starting point, and always need to be verified before additional tweaks in the tune are made. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/26 14:08
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| DaleD | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Thanks for the links mseven. I'll check with Alvin about the EASE system, but I'm sure it works with an 87, Bastett has an 87.
As I said, Alvin seemed much more cooperative in later emails. I don't know if mentioning an online presence helped, or if he was just busy. Either way, I'm confident I'll get it worked out. The driving season is over here, so I'm not missing anything. As to codes, no codes in the car. The harness is in surprisingly good shape, but I should double check it. While my car was neglected before I got it, it doesn't seem it was abused. Clearly, it's not neglected now. I'll keep you updated. Andy, you've put together a heck of a site. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/26 17:33
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| bogus | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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The EASE is ODBI and saves the log in a CSV file, IIRC. So any spreadsheet can open it.
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Posted on: 2009/11/26 22:20
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| vis_croceus | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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When we were messing around with it today, it was chugging, without the chip. Surprise, surprise. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/27 2:11
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| dan0617 | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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You can also download tunerproRT for free.
I didn't have any luck with a pcmforless chip after a heads/cam/intake swap and after many datalogs to them, I gave up. Went with Azzato, was better. Changed combos again and no luck with Azzato making the tune right. I ended up getting into my own tuning and am very happy with the car and combo now. But..... My first chip was a pcmforless chip for my near stock combo and they nailed it. I have my doubts that the chip is causing your problems, though it is possible. Before you go any farther I'd run the car around alot without the chip in it. When you think there is no problem, unhook the battery, install the chip, rehook the battery, and go for a drive. If the problem is in the chip it will surface immediately or within a few minutes of driving. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/27 15:26
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| bogus | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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hm... chugging... I hate diagnosing that one.
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Posted on: 2009/11/29 21:25
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| anesthes | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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I like datamaster myself. Tunerpro is not bad either.
-- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/11/29 22:01
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'79 Z28. 412 CID, NP 833 transmission, 3.73 10.5" rear end. |
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| Jeffvette | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Quote:
You've got something else going on other than the chip. You have a loose wire or a sensor that is not triggering a SES code. Quote:
With his car stock, an off the shelf chip is all he needs. There really is no need to data log. You can only do so much with a stock vehicle with the PROM. Alvin can hit the tune pretty much spot on and if Dale wanted to hit a dyno, and do a custom tune and spend a couple hundred bucks more and get a minimal horsepower gain. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/29 22:22
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| tpi421vett | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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I have delt with both Brian and Alvin of PCM for less. My personal experince is when dealing with Brian, the OBD2 stuff and newer, it is nailed pretty damn close, and good customer relations. When dealing with Alvin, the customer service and tuning has been less than stellar. And it is hard to get a hold of him, and many phone calls or emails aren't returned.
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Posted on: 2009/11/30 8:02
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AFR Dealer, can sell at prices too low to advertise. 801-953-6391 08 C6 LS3,3LT,Z51,A6,NPP 91 vette,450ci, AFR 220, miniram,FAST, Crane 252/260 solid roller, 200 shot nos, ZF6, 4 link, 9", DA corrected to 1300 ft 9.65@145.xx 450ci now with AFR 235... |
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| NC Kid | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Not true. I had a mail order tune and it made my car run much better and smoother. I had vats delete, EGR delete, emissions delete, and a few minor mods and they are very nice and helpful. |
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Posted on: 2009/11/30 18:05
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| tpi421vett | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Personally, I would cut my loses with Alvin, and start fresh with Mick (mseven). Before I bought a FAST system and started doing my own tuning with a FAST system, I tried 5 different tuners, and I think Mick is at the top of the list.
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Posted on: 2009/12/2 8:31
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AFR Dealer, can sell at prices too low to advertise. 801-953-6391 08 C6 LS3,3LT,Z51,A6,NPP 91 vette,450ci, AFR 220, miniram,FAST, Crane 252/260 solid roller, 200 shot nos, ZF6, 4 link, 9", DA corrected to 1300 ft 9.65@145.xx 450ci now with AFR 235... |
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| bogus | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I am with Jeff on this 100%. I reiterate - check the MAF harness. Also check all sensors for bad connectors or something to that effect. Also, doing a tune on an otherwise stock motor is like putting lipstick on a pig... sure, you can do it, but why bother? |
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Posted on: 2009/12/2 15:02
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| DaleD | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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I did it for the VATS delete and changing the fan on temp. I didn't expect a performance gain. |
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Posted on: 2009/12/2 16:40
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| Josh | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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I picked up 30 RWHP and 51 RWTQ tuning my stock motor. All I had was headers/full exhaust, no emissions gear, and 1.6 rockers.
As far as tuning, I would agree that M7 is the way to go for chip cars. He nailed my 383 right out of the gate, first try. The driveability was 95% of a stock car. The best way to do it is to tune yourself, with a dyno and street time, but if you have to go mail order M7 is your guy. |
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Posted on: 2009/12/3 1:04
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"Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton |
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| Matatk | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Webmaster
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To clarify, he hasn't had any losses with Alvin. His car is running rough without the chip. Until the car is up to snuff, you can't properly test the chip. Not to say Mick isn't a good tuner, but let him get the car running first before we pass judgment on the quality of Alvin's work. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/12/3 1:44
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| bogus | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Awe, Josh... your L98 was far from stock. Your's actually breathed... |
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Posted on: 2009/12/4 11:01
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| CasetheCorvetteman | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Id look to the O2 sensor myself.... I didnt read every post in detail, so it may have been mensioned allready, but that is where id be heading with it.
Disconnect the battery for a couple minutes and see how it runs straight after that. If its smooth and over time drifts back into it's rough running self, id really look at that O2 sensor and consider replacing it or at least testing a known good one. |
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Posted on: 2009/12/4 12:35
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| bogus | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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good point... a slow O2 can really mess things up.
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Posted on: 2009/12/4 13:14
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| pr0zac | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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my 91 camaro ran like poo when i installed a pcmforless chip in it.. i had to make sure that i was reading the timing correctly.. they add quite a bit of timing and once i set it correctly it ran light years better.
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Posted on: 2009/12/5 1:01
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96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit. |
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| JDSWHITE93 | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Senior Guru
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Well certainly doesn't sound like the tune, sounds like another incompetent so called mechanic using his diagnostic dice to diagnose a driveability issue. Sorry about your luck Dale, If you continue to have issues I'll come look at it, I can datalog the bad boy and all it will cost you is some diet Mt. Dew while I work. I will agree though everyone makes everything seem much easier than it really is, that is one of the problems with the FREE information we all share. I could tell you a motor swap is a p.i.t.a b.i.t.c.h. rotten experience. To a guy like Joe or Pete WTF big deal I ain't them though ya know what I mean ? I think an opti is no big deal. To those with limited tools and knowledge it would be a shit sandwhich.
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Posted on: 2009/12/6 0:11
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The few, the proud, the crazy, the LT1 owners association :thumbright: |
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| Calm | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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They MAKE Diet Mountain Dew?
I did not know that. |
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Posted on: 2009/12/6 1:56
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1995 Forged 385 ZF6 227/234 1.6 FIC30# MSD BBK SS SLP Bullets X-Pipe DynoMax |
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| Alvin | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Guru Newb
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Hey Dale,
This thread happened to catch my attention. I do not believe you where fair at all to us or our company. You purchased a chip from us on Jul 10, 2009 so you definitely would have had the chip lets say by the end of July. That was the last we heard from you until Thanksgiving weekend where you said the chip did not perform well and you wanted a immediate refund. We have had a strict "official" no refund policy on custom chips since Summer 2003 when I caught someone bragging on the Camaro forums that they purchased a tune, read it, and sent it back for a refund. So we've taken the same position that any digital media seller does. We explained to you there are no refunds but we will be glad to help you find out what was going on. First off I thought it was strange that you waited almost half a year to let us know you where having issues. I do not know of one person that installs a performance product and doesn't try it out that day, that week, etc. It seemed fishy to me, especially since you did not want to have any help in fixing the issue.. A refund was your only acceptable option. I asked you to check fuel pressure, timing, and a few other small things, to which I only sensed hostility and anger. I pointed you in the right direction to get a datalog, etc. In fact you threatened me with "sharing your experience" on this forum among others. Among other things you would send me duplicate emails on weekends or late at night with "can I get an answer to this?" and mind you we haven't had a business day or two yet to answer. Anyway, we tried to get you to get a datalog, check a few small things, etc. Still no go. It was obvious to us that you did not intend to help us help you so we just told you to send us the chip back and we would give you a refund. We are not talking about some big stroker motor with a huge cam, we are talking about pretty much a stock engine. As Mseven so graciously and professionally pointed out.. its not that hard! What makes things even worse is it looks like by your comments here that the car has the same problem with the stock chip. I'm not sure if that's your same position or not but that's a real shame if you put us threw all that trouble and drug our name in the mud for something that likely has nothing to do with us. We might not be perfect, but I try to please everyone I do business with while protecting me from fraudulent people. Lets face it, I don't know you from adam and you could have been the person that just needed some extra holiday cash and wanted to return something they used for 5 months, not saying you are but I wouldn't put it past some people. We try to answer every phone call, we DO answer every email. Might not be that same day but it is always within a couple of days. Its just me and one other person running this show and we are doing the best we can. This is more than a person sitting in a spare room of his house. I have a 7500 sqft shop to run, build cars, chassis dyno, etc. Having said that if anyone is personally upset with PCMforless send me an email at alvin@pcmforlessDOTcom and we will try our best to help you. |
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Posted on: 2010/1/22 1:19
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| Matatk | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Welcome to the forum, Alvin. I hope you and Dale are able to figure out whatever the issue is with the car. Feel free to stick around and pass on your tuning knowledge.
Matthew |
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Posted on: 2010/1/22 2:13
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| DaleD | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Alvin, I opened another thread to update the folks here check it. All I said was you gave up, and you stood by your product. I'm not a scammer, or someone trying to harm you. It cost me money to go through this excersize. I'm not a mechanic, and used a shop for some of this. I'll gladly give you the number of the shop in Cuyahoga Falls so you can verify work done. I got the chip in July, didn't get it installed until August. I didn't know how to take out the ECM, and was told the hush panel, (carpeted knee panel), had to come out. Turns out, on an 87, removing the vent ducts connected to the hush panel will allow you to drop the ECM out. I had it put in, and this car is a once or twice a week driver for me. I noticed good things, smoothed overdrive shift point, better idle. So I thought I was ok. My car is old, and when it began to choke on WOT from a stop, I thought it had to be my car. I didn't immediately think it was your chip, because your reputation is so good, and this is, as you say, so easy. I figured I'd wait for the driving season to be over. I did, took it to the shop, and that's when they told me it ran ok without the chip. I went in, drove it, and agreed. You told me about getting a datalog, and I wasn't keen on spending money on things I'd never use again. I agree, at that point I asked for a refund. You told me you didn't do refunds. That's when your focus shifted to ensuring the car is ok. We checked the timing, the fuel pressure, and even replaced the tps and the MAF. Same result, ran fine without the chip, bad with the chip. As you can see, Andy graciously offered to ship me a scanner. You may not think so, but I was working with you. I told you what had been done, and asked what now? And you said ship it back. As for the emails, you're being a bit unfair. You may have got them all at once, but I'd typically wait a day or two between emails, depending on the issue. I have them in my work account if it's really a sore spot, I can produce them. Check the other thread. I think what I had to say was fair. I noticed you opened a facility in Stow, Ohio and even offered to go there to try to work it out. http://www.corvette-guru.com/modules/ ... id=113554#forumpost113554 BTW, welcome to corvette-guru. |
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Posted on: 2010/1/22 2:21
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| bogus | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Gents,
I am glad this is staying civil. I hope it stays that way! Alvin - Welcome! Andy |
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Posted on: 2010/1/23 2:52
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| flyboy | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Elite Guru
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Welcome. I am not a customer of yours, yet. I did, however, e-mail a question to your company and was pleased to receive a prompt response.
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Posted on: 2010/1/23 4:20
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| JrRifleCoach | Re: PCMforless - not perfect. | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
Alvin did the tune on my Stock 86 and it ran much better than stock. He completed 8 different tunes until he was convinced the datalog was near perfect. Years later, after the cam swap, he came back to trim the tune. It took a few more tries until he was satisfied with new tune. Yes, the process took much longer between datalog deliveries. I attributed this to greater work load. As to your comment Andy; why do you bother? But then, I digress...... |
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Posted on: 2010/1/23 6:22
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